My name is Keith Giles. I love to write so that people can know Jesus and experience His life in their own.
So, I started this blog to help people understand who Jesus is, and how He reveals what the Father is really like.
This is a safe place to talk about all those questions you've had about the Bible, and Christianity. It's also a place to learn how to put the words of Jesus into practice.
Sunday, March 09, 2014
[Subversive Radio Podcast] DISPENSATIONALISM: REFUTED (Part 2)
In this podcast we look at the Dispensationalist teaching that there is a distinction between Israel and the Church.
I really enjoyed part 2 of this series and the arguments you made against dispensationalism. I would like to take things a bit further and give what I think is a fuller picture of the Israel/church/gentiles/Jews idea.
First I heard you use the terms "Christian" and "Gentiles" somewhat interchangeably. I would submit that both dispensationalists and those who refute dispensationalism make a common mistake and think of "Israel" and "the Church" as equivalent ontologically, as if "Israel" was God's people before Christ and "the Church" is God's people after Christ. I see things differently.
The Church is not God's people. Israel is God's people. The church, rather, is a functional subset of God's people. Ekklesia is an assembly, so the Church is actually God's people assembled, or while assembled. See the difference?
I take what I call a "Romans 11" view of Israel. Romans 11 shows a tree. It is Israel. Branches are cut off. These are unbelieving Jews. Not all branches are cut off, however, as the branches that remain are believing Jews. Now, believing Gentiles are grafted into the tree Israel. So, and get this, WE, BELIEVING GENTILES, are actually part of Israel! We are not "the Church", because the Church is merely a functional idea, an assembly of people as opposed to a people. We are Israel. All of God's people are Israel. In fact, I am a true Jew because I am not a Jew outwardly, but a true Jew inwardly.
Now, sometime in the future, unbelieving Jews will be grafted back into their own tree Israel. The church is only the church when it assembles.
So, Israel is all of God's people. The church is God's people assembled. Gentiles are non-Jews in ethnic terms, whether they are believers or not. Jews are Jews in ethnic terms. True Jews are believers in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile.
When you look at all believers in the world today as Israel, you get a complete picture of God's people. Another problem with dispensationalism is in how to classify Jewish believers who assemble with the church and claim to be Christians just like Gentile believers would be. Will they be part of "Israel's" future?
I wanted to toss out some food for thought. I hope to listen to part 3 soon. Blessings.
1 comment:
Keith,
I really enjoyed part 2 of this series and the arguments you made against dispensationalism. I would like to take things a bit further and give what I think is a fuller picture of the Israel/church/gentiles/Jews idea.
First I heard you use the terms "Christian" and "Gentiles" somewhat interchangeably. I would submit that both dispensationalists and those who refute dispensationalism make a common mistake and think of "Israel" and "the Church" as equivalent ontologically, as if "Israel" was God's people before Christ and "the Church" is God's people after Christ. I see things differently.
The Church is not God's people. Israel is God's people. The church, rather, is a functional subset of God's people. Ekklesia is an assembly, so the Church is actually God's people assembled, or while assembled. See the difference?
I take what I call a "Romans 11" view of Israel. Romans 11 shows a tree. It is Israel. Branches are cut off. These are unbelieving Jews. Not all branches are cut off, however, as the branches that remain are believing Jews. Now, believing Gentiles are grafted into the tree Israel. So, and get this, WE, BELIEVING GENTILES, are actually part of Israel! We are not "the Church", because the Church is merely a functional idea, an assembly of people as opposed to a people. We are Israel. All of God's people are Israel. In fact, I am a true Jew because I am not a Jew outwardly, but a true Jew inwardly.
Now, sometime in the future, unbelieving Jews will be grafted back into their own tree Israel. The church is only the church when it assembles.
So, Israel is all of God's people. The church is God's people assembled. Gentiles are non-Jews in ethnic terms, whether they are believers or not. Jews are Jews in ethnic terms. True Jews are believers in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile.
When you look at all believers in the world today as Israel, you get a complete picture of God's people. Another problem with dispensationalism is in how to classify Jewish believers who assemble with the church and claim to be Christians just like Gentile believers would be. Will they be part of "Israel's" future?
I wanted to toss out some food for thought. I hope to listen to part 3 soon. Blessings.
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