EPISODE 13: Dan Notti & Keith Giles - "What Every Pastor Should Realize"

Evangelical Christianity is on a downward spiral in America. Why? What can be done? How can Pastors of Traditional Churches stem the tide? What does it mean for Organic Churches?

Listen as Keith and Dan speak candidly about the challenges facing the American Christian Church today and what is really holding back the Church from the growth and vitality that Jesus intended for it.

Follow Dan Notti's blog at:

www.DanNotti.com

Follow Keith Giles at:

www.KeithGiles.com

Love and Sacrifice

I awoke this morning with a fragment of a dream in my head. I got up and went into our den. It was around 3:30 a.m. or so.

I knelt down in front of our sofa and started to pray about what I had seen and it began to unfold for me.

Whether it was a dream, or a vision, or just an idea that was playing itself out in my head visually, I'm not sure, but this is what I saw:

I walked into a convenience store. It was night time. There was a man standing in the middle of the store with a mask over his head. He was holding a gun and pointing it at the store clerk.

When the man with the gun saw me walk in, he turned and pointed the gun at my head. He pressed the barrel to my forehead. I heard him cock the hammer on the weapon with his thumb. It made a loud "click".

Then the man spoke to me these words: "Give me the password to your blog our I'll kill you."

My reaction was about the same as yours: Huh?

But the more I meditated on this the more I understood what it was all about.

I have seen it happen more than once in my lifetime. There are some who get a taste of fame and develop a large following on their blog, or through their podcast, and they start to neglect their family - their wife, their children - in favor of nurturing that "ministry."

It can be very difficult to realize that you're sacrificing your family for your own selfish ego, especially if you couple all of that with a "brand new revelation from God" that you - and you alone - seem to have a finger on.

Honestly, I have known many people who are willing to sacrifice their marriage for their fanbase.

Oh, trust me, they would never put it in those words. Never.

But they would say that their wife just doesn't see the vision, or that the Enemy is attacking them because they alone can see the Truth, or something along those lines.

Let me say, here and now: My wife is more important to me than my blog. I would never allow my podcast, or my pursuit of more "likes" and "shares" and "comments" to overshadow my family, or my marriage.

At least, I sincerely hope I wouldn't.

Honestly, I can understand how this happens. Last year I wrote a blog post about the "Blood Moon Hoax". On a normal blog post I may get a few hundred hits in a week or two. But in that case I got about 10,000 hits - in a single week.

So, what did I do? I wrote another post about the End Times. Why? Because, obviously, this was a topic that a LOT of people were interested in.

Then, I did a podcast about it. And then I did another blog post about the book of Revelation.

Why did I do all of that? Because I got addicted to all those crazy hits, and "likes" and "follows".

But then I realized that writing about those topics isn't what God had called me to do. It had become all about pleasing an audience rather than writing what was really at the core of my own personal calling and convictions.

So, I can understand how sometimes people can get blinded by all of that and lose perspective.

If people were sending me thousands of dollars to support my ministry, and flying me around the country to speak at their conferences or church events, and cheering me on via social media and singing my praises, that would be pretty intoxicating.

And then if Wendy didn't "get it" or wanted me to stay home and spend more time with the family, I could understand how it might be easy to write her reaction off as "the Enemy's tactics" or just dismiss her lack of enthusiasm as a lack of faith.

Of course, none of that is happening to me right now. And I pray that if it ever does I am wise enough, and humble enough, to lay it all down and walk away.

I have also seen Pastors, and Evangelists, and Prophets, and Teachers neglect their children, and their marriages, for the sake of the Ministry. They see it as some great sacrifice that God requires of them because of their special calling. They consider it to be some sort of Abraham and Isaac scenario where God is testing their love and commitment to Himself by requiring them to place their family and their marriage on the back burner.

It's a lie.

God does not require us to neglect our family in order to serve Him. He does not expect us to spend hours with total strangers while we starve our own children of love and our own wives of our affection.

Our families are not a distraction from our ministry. They are a huge part of our ministry. This is why Paul says that those who cannot take care of their own households should not be considered for ministry within the Body.

Our ministry starts at home. If I can't love my wife and my children as Jesus loves the Church (and gave Himself up for it), then how can I love anyone else?

So, for the record:

This blog is not more important to me than my wife.

My podcast is not more important to me than my family.

My internet fame (such as it is) is not worth more to me than my own sons.

I would lay it all down, give it all up, in a heartbeat, to save my marriage and salvage my family.

A wise man once told me, "If the ministry won't survive without you, then it's not God's ministry, it's yours."

God opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble. I chose grace over pride.

Anyone willing to sacrifice their wife, or their family, for their ministry is choosing pride.

Can their fall from grace be very far behind?


-kg

NOW HIRING: NEW PASTORS

Our house church is currently interviewing potential new candidates for assistant pastor. Here’s what we’re looking for:

Duties:

Responsible for loving and serving everyone else in the Body. Applicants should be willing to listen more than they talk. In fact, talking is almost completely unnecessary. Please observe our strict “no preaching” policy. Teaching is nice, but we ask that you do your best to make it conversational and please leave plenty of room for disagreements, questions, and the occasional rebuttal.

Must be willing to love people, regardless of how messed up they appear to be. No preferred parking spaces are available. First come, first served only.

Must also be willing to submit to our Senior Pastor. He is never wrong and should never be questioned or challenged in any way, at any time. He’s the Son of God, after all, so that shouldn’t be too difficult if you love Him like we do, and if also you’ve made a decision to follow Him the rest of your life.

Must support the Senior Pastor in the accomplishment of the church’s mission by NOT engaging in decision-making, advance planning or overall direction of other church members.

Must ensure the operational readiness of the church by constantly refraining from any sort of leadership or oversight of the Church and shall not in any way interfere with the practice of the “one-anothers” as clearly outlined in the New Testament scriptures.

Must constantly avoid creating any sort of key objectives, tactics; or an establishment of long-term growth goals.

Must never speak of any sort of church building program, including capital fund raising campaigns, master planning, design and architecture, contractor selection, or construction of a physical building.

Compensation:

Like everyone else on our “pastoral team,” applicant will agree that they “would rather die” than to receive money for preaching the Gospel or for teaching our brothers and sisters in Christ, whom we love. (1 Cor. 9:14-16)

This means that all our pastors are given an equal share of whatever food is available at every potluck gathering (either breakfast on Sunday mornings or dinner on Thursday evenings). Prayers are offered continually and double honor is extended at all times.

Like Peter wrote so eloquently: “Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve.” (1 Peter 5:2)

 

Education and Experience

This position requires no experience as a senior leader in a corporate business environment or as a pastor. Possession of a Bachelor’s Degree in Business, Technology, or other related field is nice, but not required, or particularly desired. Master’s work in Biblical studies will not be held against you. The successful individual must have a proven track record of putting others first and not promoting himself or herself above the needs of others.

Interested parties can submit their resumes by email or in person.

-kg

LEADER OR PASTOR?

Pastor Davis wanted more than anything to be great at his job. So, to be a better pastor, he got in his car and drove across town to the Christian book store. Using his pastor’s discount card, he purchased ten different books on Leadership written by various business-leaders, professional speakers, and motivational authors. After reading all of those books he was good at one thing: Leadership. Unfortunately for Pastor Davis, being a great pastor has absolutely nothing to do with leadership.

The problem here is that we have redefined the term “pastor”as it was intended in the new testament to reflect our modern day ideas of what church should look like. See, the noun “Pastors” only appears once in the new testament scriptures, and then it is used in the plural sense, not the singular. Not only that, the group of people called upon to “shepherd the flock”in the local assembly are called “Elders” not “Pastors”.

Beyond the obvious misuse of the word, the real danger is that we’ve completely redefined the verb “to pastor” so that it no longer has anything to do with loving people, caring for them, serving them, feeding them, strengthening them, making sure they are spiritually healthy, or anything remotely close to what a “shepherd” would do to take care of the sheep. Instead, we have reduced the term “shepherd” or “pastor” into the most narrow function – leadership.

Pastor Davis made the mistake of reading books and attending conferences and listening to audio books about leadership so he could inspire people to listen to him, or to motivate people to do stuff, or to convince people to invest in his church. What should he have done instead? Well, if the function of being an elder (who is part of a group of other elders) is to nurture the spiritual development and growth of his brothers and sisters in the church, maybe the first thing would be to spend time praying for those people? And then maybe you could spend time with them? Perhaps you might decide to read books about how to listen more, or how to encourage people? You might also want to try doing all of these things without an ulterior motive like wanting to use your influence on people to get them to do stuff, or to give you money, or to volunteer for something. Just love them and listen to them and bless them and encourage them because you love them, and because you genuinely feel called –and gifted – by God to care for people.

See, Pastors who are obsessed with leadership are like husbands who expect to improve their marriages by reading books about monster trucks. Not only is leadership not related to loving people, it will train you to become more self-focused and less others-focused.

Books about leadership make you a better leader – in the worldly, CEO, “I’m the boss” sense of the word – but if you really want to learn how to please Jesus and be the best “shepherd” you can be, just focus on learning how to love people more, and to serve people more. It’s what Jesus did. It’s also what Jesus commanded us to do. He got down on his knees and washed the feet of this disciples, and then he said, “Now that you know these things you will be blessed…if you do them!” (Not if you read them, or if you know them, but only if you “do” them).

Biblically, a good shepherd or pastor is one who loves people and serves people and helps people to depend more on Jesus. Good pastors do not train people to depend on themselves. They constantly point others to Jesus and they teach them to hear the voice of the One, True, Good Shepherd who is more than capable of speaking to His own sheep and leading them where He wants them to go.

Pastoring is not about being a good speaker. It’s not about being a good marketer. It’s not about motivating people to do stuff. It’s not about being a smart business man. Simply put, pastoring is about loving and serving people.

Don’t be like Pastor Davis. Be like Jesus. Get on your knees. Serve others. Wash feet. Teach people to look to Jesus, and to cling to Jesus, and not to yourself. Then you will be a good pastor, and you know what else? You’ll also be a leader who sets an example worth following.

-kg

**

Thanks to Aaron [@CulturalSavage] for his Tweet that inspired this blog.

WHO PASTORS THE PASTORS OF OUR PASTORS?

Someone told me this week: “Pastors who don't have pastors usually head towards not being a pastor.”

This prompted me to wonder, “Who is pastoring Rick Warren?” and “Who is pastoring the guy who is pastoring Rick Warren?” and “Who pastors that guy?”

Not to pick on Rick Warren, of course. We might also ask, “Who pastors the guy who pastors the guy who pastors Joel Olsteen? And who is pastoring that guy?”

See, the problem I have with this concept is that our hierarchical system of religion is hogwash. It’s not based on the New Testament scriptures. It totally ignores the concept of being a Body of Believers made up of equals who lovingly serve one another under the direction of Christ.

With our Americanized version of Christianity, we have a large mass of “believers” (not “disciples”) who are all being pastored by a “Pastor” and that guy isn’t pastored by anyone. Even if he was, it would be something totally man-made and in defiance of scriptural principles.

See, the New Testament church is built on the premise that we have one teacher (Jesus) and we are all brothers and sisters. None of us is to allow anyone else to call us “Teacher” or “Rabbi” according to Jesus, because that would be disobedient to His command not to duplicate the top-down hierarchy of the pagan leaders, and of the Jewish leaders.

This does not mean that none of us can be teachers or lead others. What it does mean is that we cannot allow others to single us out and treat us as if we have more authority than others in the Body of Christ.

The problem with the non-biblical hierarchy model of church leadership is that it quickly reaches an end with one person sitting at the top with no one over them. Most of us are ok with this. We like paying someone else to do all the spiritual work that we’re supposed to do. Well, some of us do, anyway. But, that’s not the Biblical model. Remember:

“Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up..” (Eph. 4:11-12)

See that? The “works of service” are to be done by “his people” not by the one’s given by Christ to equip them. In our Americanized version of Church, we’ve placed all of the “works of service” at the feet of one guy, (the Pastor), and the rest of us sit around and watch him. But, Christ’s intention was that some within the Body would equip, teach, train, and empower everyone else to do the teaching, preaching, evangelizing, praying, serving, giving, sharing, blessing, etc.

Most would answer my question above by saying that Jesus pastors the senior Pastor, and they would be half right. The truth is, Jesus is meant to be the Senior Pastor of every single one of us in the Body. He alone is the Good Shepherd. He is our Head. He is our Leader. Those who serve as Elders in our Body are being pastored by the same Shepherd as the rest of us. We’re all following Christ individually, and corporately. That’s how it was meant to work.

Paul encourages us later in the epistle to the Ephesians to “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” (Eph. 5:21)

Let’s all submit to Christ together, not to another person in our fellowship. Only Jesus is worthy of our awe and our complete obedience. We are all brothers and sisters.

-kg

PLEASE DON’T CALL ME YOUR PASTOR

In today’s church world there are pastors and then there’s everybody else. Really, nothing trumps the pastor in the church environment. If you want someone to know what church you go to, you’ll most likely need to mention your pastor by name. If you want someone to attend church with you you’ll probably need to say something about the pastor to get them in the door. If someone leaves a church you can almost guarantee it’s because of something the pastor did, or didn’t, do.

But where did this Pastor-centric idea of Christianity come from? Certainly not from the New Testament. The word is only used once and in that case it is in the plural form, meaning that within the church there were many who cared for the spiritual needs of the Body, not just one guy. In this same passage (see Ephesians 4:11) there are several other gifts mentioned including prophets, evangelists, teachers, and apostles. The majority of the New Testament reveals that it was functionally the elders who helped facilitate the gathering of the saints, and in those cases it was both male and female who served the Church in this fashion. But these elders were nothing like modern pastors. There was still an emphasis on the Body life of the Church, as evidenced in the writings of Paul, namely 1 Corinthians, and the 52 “One Anothers” that we find peppered throughout the New Testament. These “One Anothers” reveal that everyone in the early Christian Church was tasked with teaching, encouraging, sharing, giving, serving, leading, admonishing, rebuking, and loving everyone else in the Body of Christ.

None of the epistles are written to pastors. They are written to the entire Church in that region to encourage them to “be the Church” and to function under the Headship of Christ and in submission to one another – not to one paid professional.

The rise of the pastor within the Christian church started when pagan’s like Cyprian and others started to emphasize their gifting above other gifts within the Body. Soon we had an office of priest rather than a shared priesthood of all believers in the Church. Even when Luther and others reformed the Catholic system of church they kept the hierarchy intact and simply replaced the priest with a pastor.

Now, within our Church family no one is called “Pastor”. In fact, no one is called “Elder” either, although I’m certain that we have no shortage of both within our fellowship. What’s funny is that the only people who call me “Pastor” are those outside our actual church family. A few people at the motel church we’ve been helping to plant do call me “Pastor.”  I don’t correct them because it’s not that important to me either way. I am not their spiritual guru, nor do I have any more authority than anyone else in the church at the motel. But, maybe I should start correcting them? It couldn’t hurt to have them call me “Brother Keith” rather than “Pastor” whenever we meet together. Since I am not their CEO, and I don’t have any spiritual authority over them – or anyone else – it could be a step in the right direction for this new church to follow.

“Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave” – (Matthew 20:25-27)

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.” – (Matthew 23:7-9)

-kg

WHAT ABOUT PASTORAL MINISTRY?

If you've been reading my blog for any length of time you know that I've spent a fair amount of time discussing the modern concept of the Pastor and how it corresponds (or not) to the New Testament use of that same word.

Before you read any further I have to say that I am not against pastors. Many of my dear friends are senior pastors. I do not hate pastors and I'm not writing this article to put pastors down. I love pastors (and some of them even love me).

My beef with the word "pastor" is that we've given it (and the concept of a clergy-lead church) a level of importance that the New Testament doesn't support.

As I've said elsewhere, it's not that I'm against the idea of someone surrendering their life to serve the Body of Christ. Far from it. What I'm in favor of, instead, is the idea that every single believer in Christ is already a member of the priesthood. I'm in favor of the ordination of all Christians into the ministry of the Gospel, not just a select few professionals.

Does that mean that all are pastors? Of course not. But every believer is a member of the priesthood and that means that they have an ability to hear Jesus's voice, to minister to (serve) others using their gifts, and to participate in the life of the Church.

So, for me, the title of "pastor" is something I've worked hard lately to get out from under. Although I have been licensed and ordained as a minister in the Southern Baptist Church, my aim is to empower everyone who follows Jesus to operate fully in their gifting and serve in the Church as the Holy Spirit directs them to do. (My ordination papers are framed and resting happily on the floor under my bed covered in a layer of dust).

I'm in favor of the 58 "one anothers" being practiced and celebrated rather than recognizing a handful of professionals who attempt to do the work of the entire Body all by themselves.

Still, there are plenty of people who still call me "Pastor" and get away with it. For example, my family has been involved in planting an organic church at a local motel lately, in partnership with Saddleback Church. Because of this, it's more and more common for people involved to call me "Pastor Keith". I don't mind it and I don't try to correct them. Why? Because I'm actively encouraging them to "be the Church" and to follow Jesus in their daily lives. It matters less to me what they call me and more to me whether or not they are becoming disciples of Jesus.

When I used to visit my friend Robert Higgins at the Senior Home near my house, everyone called me "Pastor" and even Robert would introduce me to others as "His Pastor". Quite honestly, I was very happy to be known as "Robert's Pastor" because this is what I was for him. I was "shepherding" him into the presence of Jesus and he and I both recognized this.

To me, a pastor is someone who cares for others in the Church. He, or she, has been filled with the Holy Spirit and gifted to come alongside people in trouble or distress. As far as I can see, the New Testament (which only mentions the word once) gives us no restrictions as to how many people can operate in the pastoral gifting. And the scriptures always speak of a plurality of elders who shepherd, never one single pastor.

What's more, the gift of pastoring is a service gift. It's not a gift that carries any authority with it. Pastors care for their brothers and sisters in Christ, but there is only one Father and that is God. There is only one Head of the Church and that is Jesus.

A few years ago, when I first started this blog my bio at the left identified me as a "Writer, pastor, teacher, and house church leader in Orange County". You'll notice now that the word "pastor" has since been removed. That's because I've tried to distance myself from both the title and the popular perception of what most believe a pastor is or does.

In our house church family I have also done my best to back myself out of the senior pastor role, allowing others to share scripture, lead us in communion, teach the Word, and operate in their gifting more. Most are shocked to learn that I do not teach or preach at our house church. In fact, no one does! Instead, everyone one of us - children included - are encouraged to bring a scripture, a teaching, an encouragment, a song, or whatever else the Lord compels them to share with the church family.

One member recently remarked that he was shocked the first time he visited our house church because I wasn't the one leading the meeting. At one point I even left the room while everyone else continued to share from scripture! This is by design. It's taken me a long time to learn how to shut my mouth and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us in the meetings. And I've love the freedom we've enjoyed over the last 5 years together, operating in this way. It's been the best thing I've ever done with the word "Church" on it.

So, when we look at the New Testament we see that the Apostles used the terms Elder, Shepherd and Overseer interchangeably.

The terms "elder" (or, presbyter), "overseer" (or, bishop) and "pastor" all refer to the same thing. So, we should not separate elders, pastors, and overseers into three different groups with differing functions.

An elder (presbyter) is literally "an old person". The same word is used in the Greek to refer to someone who is old and also someone who is recognized in the Church as such. In Titus 1:5-7, Paul talks about appointing elders in the church but then he switches to the term "Overseer" which suggests that the two were one and the same in his mind.

In 1 Peter 5:1-2, the Apostle Peter exhorts the "elders among you" to "shepherd (pastor) the flock of God that is among you." So, who are the one's "pastoring" the church in the New Testament? It's the Elders (plural) who are recognized as being mature, humble and trustworthy in the Body.

In Acts 20, all three of these words (Overseer, Pastor and Elder) are used to refer to a single group. Paul calls "the elders of the church" and instructs them to care for "the flock" (suggesting that they are therefore "shepherds") and reminds them that the Holy Spirit has made them "overseers" (v.28). So, elders, pastors and overseers are referring to one group of people in the Church who perform all three works of service.

I always have to point out that the New Testament also commands all of us in the Body of Christ to submit to one another. Submission isn't something you demand in the Church, it's something you grant to others out of love.

So, all of us are called to submit to one another and that means that the elders/pastors/overseers submit themselves to serve the entire church and the entire church submits to them and to everyone else. The only supreme person to whom all Christians should submit is Christ, and Christ alone.

The pastors (plural) in the Body are called to be the servants (or slaves) of all and to serve out of humility and love. If we follow the New Testament, it's not about one person leading us in everything. Instead, everyone gets a chance to serve and to lead and to encourage. Eventually, the immature among us will become the "elders" of the group and they will have their turn to serve others in the way they have been served.

The Church is a family and in God's family there is only one Father (God) and one Head (Christ). The rest of us are just brothers and sisters in Him.

-kg