A CONVERSATION ABOUT HELL

“I believe Hell is an eternal place of suffering,” my friend said. “If it wasn’t, I think it would make everything Jesus did for us on the cross pointless. I mean, if everyone makes it in the end, why would we need to share the Gospel?”

I’ve heard this sort of thing before. But for some reason this analogy sprang to my mind.

“What if you saw a house burning and there was a little girl crying for help inside?” I asked my friend.

“Well, I would go and save her if I could,” she said.

“But, what I could promise you that the little girl would be ok in a few months; after a few surgeries all her burns will be healed, and all of her medical bills would be paid in full?”

My friend looked at me with a puzzled look on her face. “What difference would that make?” She said.

“Well, you’re saying that there’s no point in sharing the Gospel with people if everyone ends up redeemed in the end. My analogy is the same: The little girl who is burning in the house fire will end up ok in the end. Her burns will be healed and she might even be more beautiful than she was before, and her family won’t have any huge medical bills to pay for all those expensive plastic surgeries to heal her scars. So, why would you bother saving that little girl from the fire?”

My friend paused a few moments and then nodded silently, unsure of what to say next.

I broke the silence: “I think we should share the Gospel because we want people to know Jesus the way we do, and because we don’t want them to have to suffer – even a little – for rejecting His offer of reconciliation.”

My friend stayed quiet, so I continued; “What if the little girl in that fire was your own daughter? Wouldn’t you want someone to save her life? Can you imagine anyone standing there, watching the fire burn and listening to her screams for help and saying, ‘What’s the point? She’ll be ok after a few years.’ Would that be ok with you?”

“Why would anyone allow their child to be burned alive?” she asked.

What a great question.

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Food for thought: What if punishment in the afterlife isn’t just pointless, eternal suffering? What if there’s a point or a purpose?

“God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.” [Hebrews 12:10-11]

Share your thoughts in the comments below.

3 VIEWS OF HELL: A Big Surprise?

UPDATE: 11/18/16 - Since posting this graphic I've realized that this list is incomplete and in some cases not accurate. I will post a new blog soon with an updated list which more clearly identifies the verses where these 3 views are found.  For what it's worth, the Universalism list is the most accurate and the Eternal Torment section is the least. Stay tuned for that update.

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I recently looked at this graphic [above] again and started to notice something I've never seen before about these 3 different Christian views of Hell. 

Eternal Torment seems to draw most of its evidence from Matthew and Luke. 

Annihilationism seems mostly taken from the Gospel of John.

Universalism is mostly attributed to the epistles of Paul the Apostle.

Wow. I did NOT see that one coming.

In the next few days I might take some time to explore each of these three lists and point out a few more interesting things about them, but for now I wanted to make sure I shared this first realization with everyone here.

What are your thoughts?

Any theories as to why Matthew and Luke are more into Eternal Suffering?

Any ideas why John's Gospel would be more about Anninilationism?

Want to take a stab at why Paul's letters are so full of Universalism? [And why those who seem to love Paul the most totally miss this side of his teaching?]

I'd love to hear your thoughts before I weigh in...

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5 MINUTE VIDEO: Rock, Paper, Scissors, Hell? [Part 4]

Which of the 3 views of Hell is the right one? 

Take 5 minutes and listen as Keith reveals his own personal views of this doctrine.

5 MINUTE VIDEO: Part 2 - Eternal Suffering?

Is Eternal Suffering in Hell really what the New Testament teaches? Why is it so popular today? What evidence is there for eternal suffering, and what about the verses that contradict that view?

Take 5 minutes and listen as Keith shines a little light on this view, and compares it to other views in our second video on the topic.

VIDEO INTERVIEW: CHUCK MCKNIGHT AND KEITH GILES

Listen as Keith and Chuck talk about Organic Church, Nonviolence and different Christian views of Hell.

Things I Don't Believe Anymore

We have a saying in our house church family: "Everyone is in process."

This means that we have accepted the idea that different people are at different places in their Christian walk, and that because of this we do not all agree on every little point of doctrine.

It also means that, over time, our views and beliefs are subject to change and to develop as we live life, study scripture, and learn to hear the voice of God more clearly.

As a result, there are things that I used to believe a few years ago that I now no longer hold to be true. Here are just a few of those beliefs that I no longer believe:

Tithing - The New Testament does not teach tithing for Christians. Historically the Christian church did not teach it and waited until 777 AD under Charlemagne to institute an official mandate for tithing (in order to support a professional clergy class which arose from a shift during the reign of Constantine). That's a long time to go before recognizing the tithe in the New Testament church. So, what did the Christian church teach and practice before that?

Read about that here:
Why Oh Why Does The Church Tithe?

Immortal Souls - I used to stand up and proclaim that every human alive is already immortal. The only question is where they will spend their eternity. Now I completely reject that notion of defacto human immortality of the soul. Mainly because we have so many scriptures all through the Bible that proclaim that those who have Christ have life and those that do not have Christ do not have life. Or that those who reject Christ will die, or be destroyed, or perish, etc.

Read more about what changed my mind here:
Mortal Souls

Eternal Suffering In Hell - Since I don't accept the inherent eternal existence of human souls, I also reject the idea that the doctrine of eternal suffering in hell is taught by the scriptures. The Christian church, from the beginning, always had 3 different perspectives on the eternal fate of non-believers. Some believed that they would suffer for a time and then be destroyed. Others believed that they would suffer for a time and then receive the opportunity for redemption. Lastly, a small minority believed that they would suffer forever in flames of fire. The majority view was actually the idea that suffering was temporary followed by an opportunity for salvation.

Learn more about the three views of hell here:
What We Should Believe About Hell

Blessing the Nation of Israel - For years I affirmed the notion that America must "bless Israel" or God would curse our nation. Now I understand that the New Testament teaches that Jesus is the true Israel, and that only those in Christ are the Israel of God. Those who reject Christ as Messiah (and that would be Jewish people in the nation of Israel today) are called "anti-christ" by the New Testament. Jesus himself says that those who reject Him also reject God the Father.

I also recently learned that this Pro-Israel view is about as old as the Mormon cult which started the same year (1830) and was invented by a guy named Darby. This new teaching is called "Dispensationalism" and no Christian before 1830 believed it.

I've written more about this here:
Bless Israel?
Galatians 3:16

A Futurist View of Prophecy - Once upon a time I believed whole-heartedly the Dispensational view that Matthew 24 and Revelation are about events in the future that will precede the return of Christ. Now I read those passages very differently and I am convinced that they are speaking largely about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, not about some future events that must take place in the Middle East before Christ can return.

Learn more here:
Jesus the Prophet

What beliefs do you no longer hold true? Please share in the comments below.

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What About Hell?

Many Christians today believe that the Gospel is about helping people to escape an eternal suffering in Hell. But what they don't realize is that the scriptural evidence for an eternal hell is pretty hard to come by. In fact, there seems to be a lot more evidence for a hell that is limited and purposeful rather than punitive and eternal.

If your entire Christian walk centers on escape from hell, the suggestion that hell isn't eternal can be challenging, to say the least.

Moreover, if you're only a Christian because you don't want to burn in hell forever, you might not actually have any interest in following Jesus (which is actually what being a Christian is supposed to be about). You might only want to avoid endless pain, making your profession of faith little more than a totally selfish act.

But doesn’t Jesus talk more about Hell than anyone else in the Bible? Well, yes and no.

Jesus does teach that those who reject Him as Lord will suffer in Gehenna, which we translate as "Hell", but His contemporary hearers would have understood this as a reference to the garbage dump outside the city gates. At best, Jesus is using this constantly burning trash heap as a metaphor for what will happen to those who die without His life in them.

At the resurrection, when Christ returns, both the righteous and the unrighteous will be raised from the dead to face the Judgment seat of Christ. (See Matthew 25) Those who love Christ and who have followed Him will be raised to live forever with Him in the New Heaven and the New Earth. But those who do not belong to Christ will be raised for...what?

That’s hard to say.

Yes, Jesus warns that unbelievers will be sent to a place of torment – a place that should be avoided at all costs – but we do not know for how long these people will suffer in this way.  Jesus does say that the fire will be eternal, but we are not told that the people, or the suffering, will be eternal.

Jesus tells us that in Gehenna there will be weeping (Matt 8:12), wailing (Matt 13:42), gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:50), darkness (Matt 25:30), flames (Luke 16:24), torments (Luke 16:23), and "everlasting fire". (Matt 25:41)

As scary as this may be – and Jesus did emphasize that this was a fate to avoid at all costs – it does not specifically teach us that Hell involves eternal suffering.

We have to balance these statements with verses where Jesus warns us to fear God who:

"...can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

For most of us the idea of an eternal hell is almost universally accepted as being what the Bible teaches. We almost cannot imagine any other view being taken seriously. However, that was not always the case. In fact, for MOST of Church history, there were 3 different views of Hell, and the eternal suffering viewpoint was in the minority.

Note this reference in the New Schaff-Herzog Christian Encyclopedia which says: 

 "The earliest system of Universalistic theology was by Clement of Alexandria who was the head of the theological school in that city until 202 A.D. His successor in the school was the great Origen, the most distinguished advocate of this doctrine in all time." (From the New Schaff-Herzog, page 96, paragraph 2)

"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist; one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked." (From the New Schaff-Herzog, page 96, paragraph 3)

So, what are the other two views? One is “Universalism” which teaches that those who die without Christ will suffer for a time in Hell but eventually everyone will accept Christ as Lord.

The other view is the “Annihilationist” view which teaches that those who die without Christ will suffer for a limited time in Hell and then be destroyed forever and cease to exist.

So, throughout the centuries, Christians have disagreed with which view of Hell is correct. Many Christians are also unaware that when Augustine attempted to refute the Universalist view of hell – which was the majority view in his day – he freely admitted that his doctrine of eternal suffering was against the grain.

What are we to make of this? If it seems that the Old Testament scriptures hardly mentions the topic, and if Jesus speaks mainly of the "death" (perishing, destruction, etc.) of the unrepentant sinner, and if the early Church had no grid for the concept of eternal suffering, and if both the Old and the New Testament Scriptures affirm that only those in Christ have eternal life, then the views of Annhilationism and Universalism (after a period of suffering/punishment) seem to be much more in line with the whole of Scripture.

At the very least, all of these facts certainly make the commonly held doctrine of Eternal Suffering seem very weak in comparison.

In the final analysis, Christians should have mercy with those who disagree with their view of Hell since all three views have scriptural support and on this side of the grave none of us can decisively claim one is more correct than the other.

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The Boundless Riches of Christ?

You know the kind. They stand on the street corner holding a sign that says “Turn or Burn!” or they shout at concert goers through a megaphone about how the lines in hell are even longer. They call themselves evangelists, but is that really what they’re doing?

It’s true that some Christians feel that preaching the Gospel is primarily about informing people that they are going to burn in hell forever. This is usually defended as “telling people the truth” and in spite of all the spittle and phlegm they assure you that they’re doing it all in love.

Why this may technically be true, at least in part, I want to ask whether or not this is the way that the Apostles preached the Gospel message, according to the scriptures.

Leaving behind the debates about Hell, (and its duration and purpose), let’s stick to the evidence we have in scripture regarding the sermons that Jesus and the Apostle’s actually preached.

See, contrary to popular opinion, Jesus did NOT spend most of His time talking about Hell. He spent nearly every breath talking about the Good News of the Kingdom of God. Yes, Jesus did make reference to the punishment that awaited those who chose not to follow Him, but He did so in the context of a larger conversation about the Kingdom of God.

I wonder what Paul focused on when he preached the Gospel?

“He proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ—with all boldness and without hindrance!” (Acts 28:30-31)

And when Paul stood up to preach to those godless pagans in Athens, what did he focus on? Hell? Judgment? Damnation? Did Paul love them enough to tell them the truth about their eternal destination? Let’s see:

“Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.

“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

“Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him [Jesus] from the dead.” (ACTS 17:22-32)

Whoa! Where’s the fire and brimstone? First he compliments them on their spirituality, then he jumps right into telling them all about who God is, and how God wants to be found, and then he even quotes one of their pagan pop stars (or poets) and concludes that everyone one of us "are God's offspring".

 

Where’s all that love stuff about sinful abominations and eternal suffering in a lake of fire? Sure, he mentions that a day of judgment is coming, but he leaves out the fact that they are the ones who will end up getting the short end of that stick. I’m sure it wasn’t very effective. Right?

“Some of the people became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.” (ACTS 17:34)

So, what Gospel did Peter preach? It was all about Jesus:

“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.” (ACTS 2:22-24)

I wonder how much more effective our street preachers today might be if they preached this same kind of Gospel as Peter preached? Instead of focusing on Hell, maybe we should be preaching about Jesus with the same intensity and passion as the Apostles did?

Peter continued by saying:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” (ACTS 2:36-40)

Again, notice there’s no emphasis on eternal suffering here. Peter’s entire focus is on the person of Jesus. He’s our only hope. He’s the Messiah. He gave His life to save all of us because of His great love for us and those who receive Him will also receive many wonderful blessings as a result.

Given that Jesus, Peter, and Paul (not to mention the other Apostles) never made eternal suffering the theme of their Gospel presentations, I wonder why we don’t see more preachers and evangelists today proclaiming what they did?

Can I make a suggestion? I’d like to suggest that those who have a gift of evangelism try to focus their message on preaching what Jesus and the Apostles did; The Gospel of the Kingdom. Or, for variety’s sake, try simply lifting up the person of Jesus and sharing with everyone how wonderful it is to know Him and to love Him and to follow Him. Just imagine how great that could be, especially if people actually respond and decide they’d like to know more about Jesus.

You know, I’ve found that people really are interested in knowing about Jesus. They may not be very interested in Church, or in joining a Christian club, but they are interested in the person of Jesus. We should take advantage of that fact. We should do all we can to point people to Jesus and to invite them to follow Him in their daily lives. That’s sort of what the Great Commission was all about anyway.

As Paul said let us all, “…preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ.” (Eph.3:8)

Maybe, just maybe, the world would respond to the message that God loves them and would rather die than live without them.

I think it’s worth a shot.

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What Should We Believe About Hell?

Now that the smoke has largely cleared on Rob Bell's "Love Wins" book and most of the credible rebuttals and responses have long since fell off the Top 10 List of Christian bestsellers, I wanted to share my thoughts on this controversial topic.

Before I get into this one please let me say that this is still an in-progress study for me. My views are not set in stone, but this is where I've landed as of now, based on my studies. These studies have included reading the words of Jesus on the topic of hell, or gehenna, listening to various Bible teachers on the subject, and reading both Bell's "Love Wins" and Francis Chan's response, "Erasing Hell".

 For me, Bell's book was anything but persuasive, and Chan's book was only a re-statement of the traditional view of eternal suffering without any real, hard look at the other two competing views of hell, namely Annihilationism and Universalism.

Honestly, I much prefer the ministry and teaching of Chan to that of Bell, so my opinion of their books isn't reflective of my like or dislike of their individual ministries. I'm simply commenting on my assessment of their books on this subject.

Before I get into this I should probably define what the three main views of Hell are for those who aren't familiar:

Eternal Suffering is the most popular view in the Christian church today, although as we shall see this is a fairly recent development. It was once the minority view in the early church but has risen to prominence in the last few hundred years or so. This view is that those who reject Christ will suffer an eternal punishment of extreme anguish and torture forever and ever without end.

Annihiliationism is the view that unrepentant souls are destroyed forever after a period of suffering.

Universalism is the view that those who reject Christ as Lord will suffer for a period of time and then be offered an opportunity to repent and turn to Christ, thus being redeemed and brought into the Kingdom of God.

I must point out that, although it may seem so, this theory of Universalism is not the same as the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. As I understand it, Purgatory is where only certain people go who are not good enough to be saved, but not evil enough to suffer forever. Catholics do also believe that some go to an eternal place of torment. Those who do not either go to Hell, or Heaven, must suffer a time in Purgatory and are then allowed to enter Heaven.

To study this topic you must only look at the New Testament writings. Why? Because the Old Testament scriptures are strangely silent on the topic of where we go after we die. David and the other Hebrew writers refer to "going down to the pit" or "the grave" but nothing is said about fire, or torment, or suffering forever and ever...or at all, really.

While we can probably wonder about why this is, the fact remains that Jesus and the Apostles give us our only clues about what happens to those who reject Christ after they die. So, let's look at what the New Testament tells us.

If we look at what Jesus taught about Hell, or Gehenna, (the term Jesus actually uses when He speaks of the place that people go if they do not accept Him as Messiah), we see that in every case the language that Jesus uses has to do with destruction of the soul, not eternal suffering without end.

Yes, there are a handful of verses that speak of "everlasting fire" or "everlasting torment" and Jesus talks about "fire that is not quenched" and "the worm that does not die", but these are only a handful (and we will address these in a moment). The majority of verses do not speak of an eternal suffering but instead about destruction, perishing, and death.

In the places where Jesus does speak of an eternal duration of hell, the eternal quality is placed on the fire, or the smoke, or the worms, not on the torment, and not on the souls of the people who are suffering.

The view of eternal suffering is predicated on an assumption which I believe is scripturally unsound; the idea that the human soul is eternal.

You and I have always heard it said that "every soul is immortal, the only question is where you spend eternity." But, does the Scripture teach us that those outside of Christ will live forever? No. I can find no scriptures anywhere that affirm the eternal quality of the human soul per se, without Christ.

Starting in Genesis, the reason that God banishes Adam and Eve from the Garden is why? "Lest they eat of the Tree of Life and live forever." (Genesis 3:22)

And what was their punishment for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? "You shall surely die" (Genesis 3:2)

So, if death was the punishment for their sin, and if they were prevented from eating from the Tree of Life because to do so would be to "live forever", then are human souls inherently eternal?

No.

This is also why Paul and the other Apostles go on and on about how "our life is hidden in Christ" and "when Christ, who is your life, appears, you will appear with him also." (Colossians 3: 3-4)

Jesus even tells us that if we come to Him we will have life, but if we do not come to Him we do not have life. (John 5:40; 10:10; etc.)

So, only those of us who are in Christ have life, and without Christ we have no life beyond this one.

However, Jesus does teach that those who reject Him as Lord will suffer in Gehenna, which we translate as "Hell" but that His contemporary hearers would have understood as the garbage dump outside the city gates.  At best, Jesus is using this constantly burning trash heap as a metaphor for what will happen to those who die without His life in them.

At the resurrection, when Christ returns, both the righteous and the unrighteous will be raised from the dead to face the Judgment seat of Christ. Those who love Christ and who have followed Him will be raised to live forever with Him in the New Heaven and the New Earth. But those who do not belong to Christ will be raised for...what?

This is where it gets tricky.

Jesus warns that it will be a place of torment, but we do not know for how long. While Jesus says that the fire will be eternal, we are not told that the people, or the suffering will be eternal.

Jesus tells us that in Gehenna there will be weeping (Matt 8:12), wailing (Matt 13:42), gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:50), darkness (Matt 25:30), flames (Luke 16:24), torments (Luke 16:23), and "everlasting fire". (Matt 25:41)

As scary as this may be, and Jesus did emphasize that this was a fate to avoid at all costs, it does not specifically teach us that Hell is about suffering eternally without end.

We have to balance these statements with verses where Jesus warns us to fear God who:

"...can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

One thing I came across that really opened my eyes on this subject was a reference in the New Schaff-Herzog Christian Encyclopedia which revealed something fascinating:  

"The earliest system of Universalistic theology was by Clement of Alexandria who was the head of the theological school in that city until 202 A.D. His successor in the school was the great Origen, the most distinguished advocate of this doctrine in all time." (From the New Schaff-Herzog, page 96, paragraph 2)

"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist; one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked." (From the New Schaff-Herzog, page 96, paragraph 3)

Download the PDF of this page here>

[The info is at the bottom, left corner of the text.]

Also, when Augustine refuted Universalism in his day he freely admitted that it was the view of a majority of Christians in the Christian Church.

So, what are we to make of this? If it seems that the Old Testament scriptures hardly mentions the topic, and if Jesus speaks mainly of the "death" (perishing, destruction, etc.) of the unrepentant sinner, and if the early Church had no grid for the concept of eternal suffering, and if both the Old and the New Testament Scriptures affirm that only those in Christ have eternal life, then the views of Annhilationism and Universalism (after a period of suffering/punishment) seem to be much more in line with the whole of Scripture. 

At the very least, all of these facts certainly make the commonly held doctrine of Eternal Suffering seem very weak in comparison.

I'd love to know your thoughts on the subject. Please post your comments below.

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WANT TO STUDY MORE?

For more on this topic I recommend part two of Steve Gregg's excellent series: "Three Views of Hell" on MP3 here>