Awesome article over at Mark Main's blog "The Untried".
You must go and read it now.
Here's a taste:
"If you have read much of this blog you know that I am not a fan of today's institutional church system for a variety of reasons. I know many don't understand my cynicism.
Churches have spent more money just on buildings in less than twenty years than it would take to eradicate hunger and many diseases from children in Africa. Add in salaries, utilities, and all the other things churches spend money on and I can only guess how much money has been spent simplyon 'the faithful'.
That is why I am so frustrated by what I see marketed as Christianity in this country today. Is spending 28 billion dollars on nice buildings for our Sunday morning meetings more important than showing grace, mercy, compassion, and love by helping those in Africa who are dying at a rate of over 25,000 a day from starvation and preventable disease? Obviously, for American Christianity the answer to that question is a resounding YES. You can claim that isn't the case, but the facts are undeniable. American Christianity has basically said that the sickness and starvation of others isn't nearly as important as it's need for bigger, nicer buildings. Do you realize how perverse that is?"
FULL ARTICLE HERE
Tuesday, December 30, 2008
Monday, December 29, 2008
OC REGISTER RECOGNIZES SOUL SURVIVOR CHURCH
My good friend John Thomas, pastor of Soul Survivor Church in Costa Mesa, CA was interviewed in a great article for the Orange County Register about churches who have decided to focus their attention on the poor rather than on themselves.
Read it
HERE
Read it
HERE
Sunday, December 28, 2008
SUBVERSIVE: EL PASO
As I spend time in my old stomping grounds here in El Paso I cannot help but imagine all the ways I could jack things up here in this sleepy border town.
From guerilla marketing messages inserted in local bookstore shelves, to under the radar flyers on car windshields and subversive messages in unexpected places, I am seriously wondering how long it would take for me to be run out of this town on a rail if I ever returned to live here.
Perhaps I might preach a sermon in a local church...at least once before my name was added to the "do not call" list, or perhaps I might buy a billboard along I-10 to challenge the complacency of local churches who ignore the thousands of poor who are just across the border, and along her own streets, daily.
I have no illusions of becoming an infamous dark hero in this place. I'm certain my infamy would be more like actual threats against my life and complete black-listing by the Christian churches here. Would I be willing to speak out and make waves if I knew it would mean an actual backlash against my family, against my parents, or my wife and children?
I want to ask people here, "Does your Church preach the Gospel"? I want to challenge them to see the poor around them, and the heart of God for the poor in their Bibles, and the calling of God for His people to love them in action and in truth, not with words or empty promises.
I can't imagine living here and sitting still while week after week pastors from the pulpit preach about bringing your lost friend's to church as if that is the fulfillment of the Gospel of Jesus. What happened to "Go into all the world"? What happened to "making disciples"? What happened to "teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you"?
Seriously. What happened? I really don't know.
There are those here in El Paso who do serve the poor and who do live out a radical example of the Gospel of the Kingdom in their everyday life. One is my friend Tim Gamwell who has given his life to help as many children living in poverty in Juarez, Mexico and here in El Paso as he can...to the point of becoming one of the poor himself as he supports them out of his own pocket and lives without many of the conveniences others take for granted in order to care for just one more child.
If I ever did return to this place I would be honored to serve alongside Tim and his family as they serve these children and implore the Churches in this area to open their hearts, and their wallets, to touch the poor all around them.
I cannot reconcile a church of thousands - mostly white, upper-to-middle class christians - who invest over $40k to put on an over-the-top show to count hands raised (those who said the sinner's prayer) and fails to give as much attention or thought towards what to do with those 1,500 people after the fact. Making disciples, or making converts? I don't understand the misdirection of priority.
To be honest, I pray with all my heart that God does not call me to return here. If so, I would certainly obey Him, but I would come knowing that the battle would be long and that hearts would need to be softened over time.
Maybe I could set up an El Paso chapter of Subversive operatives who could carry out this mission in my absence? Are there any out there who are willing to wear that target on their back for the Gospel of the Kingdom? Are there any here in El Paso willing to stand up and speak out this message of compassion for the poor?
I pray that God would raise up an army like this. Who knows? Maybe they are already out there and I just haven't heard of them or met them yet? Maybe they are dropping flyers into Church bathrooms as I write this? Maybe...
-kg
From guerilla marketing messages inserted in local bookstore shelves, to under the radar flyers on car windshields and subversive messages in unexpected places, I am seriously wondering how long it would take for me to be run out of this town on a rail if I ever returned to live here.
Perhaps I might preach a sermon in a local church...at least once before my name was added to the "do not call" list, or perhaps I might buy a billboard along I-10 to challenge the complacency of local churches who ignore the thousands of poor who are just across the border, and along her own streets, daily.
I have no illusions of becoming an infamous dark hero in this place. I'm certain my infamy would be more like actual threats against my life and complete black-listing by the Christian churches here. Would I be willing to speak out and make waves if I knew it would mean an actual backlash against my family, against my parents, or my wife and children?
I want to ask people here, "Does your Church preach the Gospel"? I want to challenge them to see the poor around them, and the heart of God for the poor in their Bibles, and the calling of God for His people to love them in action and in truth, not with words or empty promises.
I can't imagine living here and sitting still while week after week pastors from the pulpit preach about bringing your lost friend's to church as if that is the fulfillment of the Gospel of Jesus. What happened to "Go into all the world"? What happened to "making disciples"? What happened to "teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you"?
Seriously. What happened? I really don't know.
There are those here in El Paso who do serve the poor and who do live out a radical example of the Gospel of the Kingdom in their everyday life. One is my friend Tim Gamwell who has given his life to help as many children living in poverty in Juarez, Mexico and here in El Paso as he can...to the point of becoming one of the poor himself as he supports them out of his own pocket and lives without many of the conveniences others take for granted in order to care for just one more child.
If I ever did return to this place I would be honored to serve alongside Tim and his family as they serve these children and implore the Churches in this area to open their hearts, and their wallets, to touch the poor all around them.
I cannot reconcile a church of thousands - mostly white, upper-to-middle class christians - who invest over $40k to put on an over-the-top show to count hands raised (those who said the sinner's prayer) and fails to give as much attention or thought towards what to do with those 1,500 people after the fact. Making disciples, or making converts? I don't understand the misdirection of priority.
To be honest, I pray with all my heart that God does not call me to return here. If so, I would certainly obey Him, but I would come knowing that the battle would be long and that hearts would need to be softened over time.
Maybe I could set up an El Paso chapter of Subversive operatives who could carry out this mission in my absence? Are there any out there who are willing to wear that target on their back for the Gospel of the Kingdom? Are there any here in El Paso willing to stand up and speak out this message of compassion for the poor?
I pray that God would raise up an army like this. Who knows? Maybe they are already out there and I just haven't heard of them or met them yet? Maybe they are dropping flyers into Church bathrooms as I write this? Maybe...
-kg
Saturday, December 27, 2008
BSU REUNION '08
I can't describe the great joy Wendy and I had yesterday spending a few hours with some dear friends from college (UT El Paso), some of whom we had not seen since graduation over 15 years ago.
Wednesday, December 24, 2008
EL PASO CHRISTMAS
Our family is in El Paso visiting my parents for Christmas. Already we've run into several old friends in unexpected places and catching up with other friends we've not seen in years.
I find myself scanning the crowd in every restaurant and grocery story looking for familiar faces. It's weird.
Looking forward to Christmas day tomorrow, although I've already had my best Christmas (see post over at www.MissionHouseChurch.com)
On Friday we're having a reunion with some of our dear college friends and today and tonight I'll be hanging with other friends for coffee, etc.
Hope all of you have a great Christmas celebration and that the New Year is full of blessing.
Peas (on Earth),
-kg
I find myself scanning the crowd in every restaurant and grocery story looking for familiar faces. It's weird.
Looking forward to Christmas day tomorrow, although I've already had my best Christmas (see post over at www.MissionHouseChurch.com)
On Friday we're having a reunion with some of our dear college friends and today and tonight I'll be hanging with other friends for coffee, etc.
Hope all of you have a great Christmas celebration and that the New Year is full of blessing.
Peas (on Earth),
-kg
Monday, December 15, 2008
GIVE
Rather than buying something unnecessary for someone in your life who already has a house full of stuff, try to spend your money buying food and necessities for people who are really in need this Holiday season
Our family has made a point of reducing our Christmas gift purchases to only one gift for each person in our immediate family. All other spending will be to buy food and clothes for people who are in serious need of assistance and toys for the children who live in the motel in Santa Ana where we minister.
Christmas is about giving, and we should start with those who are truly in need.
Peace (on Earth),
Keith
Our family has made a point of reducing our Christmas gift purchases to only one gift for each person in our immediate family. All other spending will be to buy food and clothes for people who are in serious need of assistance and toys for the children who live in the motel in Santa Ana where we minister.
Christmas is about giving, and we should start with those who are truly in need.
Peace (on Earth),
Keith
Friday, December 12, 2008
RITE OF PASSAGE
Last Saturday morning I drove my oldest son out to Oak Canyon Nature Center in Anaheim Hills. It was the day after his 13th birthday.
We walked together across the parking lot and I let him walk alone down the main trail into the woods. After a few feet his Aunt Felicia met him and walked alongside him, encouraging him and reminding him what a special young man he is. Then she stopped at the bridge and let him walk on further alone.
A few feet down the trail another friend, Scott Laumann, stepped out and walked with Dylan along the trail. They stopped and watched the colors in the morning sky for a while and Scott gave him advice on being responsible, seeking God and hearing His voice.
When they were done Dylan walked alone down the path a bit more until Jacob Wright met him along the trail. Jacob is just 15. Dylan looks up to him quite a bit. It was only a few years ago that Dylan had been part of Jacob's 13th birthday celebration. Now Jacob was sharing with Dylan what he had learned about becoming a young man after God's heart.
After their talk Dylan walked on and met Jacob's father, Jason, who talked to him about about how most of what we learn is from walking with God through difficult circumstances.
Dylan went on down the trail and was met by his Aunt Tina and his Grandmother, and finally, at the end of the trail, by his Grandfather Gerald. They turned and walked all the way back out of the woods together as Dylan listened intently.
When they reached the beginning of the trail Dylan's family was there waiting for him and together we drove home.
That afternoon we presented Dylan with a sword - a leather-bound, NIV Study Bible with his name engraved in gold leaf on the cover.
Our house church family, and a few friends were there to encourage him further, lay hands on him and bless him as he took his first tentative steps into manhood.
God bless you, my son.
Love,
Dad
Tuesday, December 02, 2008
NOW OPEN: THE NEW TEMPLE OF GOD
Jesus came to destroy the Temple. His resurrection was the formal ground-breaking on the New Temple - Your Body.
The reason the New Testament church didn't have buildings? They WERE the building.
The reason the New Testament church didn't pay their elders, shepherds and overseers? Because you don't pay your family members to love you or care for you.
The reason the New Testament church didn't have any blood sacrifice (as every other religion around them did)? Because not only was Jesus the first and ultimate sacrifice, but this new temple, the new priesthood (that's us) also became the living sacrifices as well.
So, fast forward 300 years and a Roman Emperor establishes a new way of doing church. He gives them buildings. He pays their leaders. This was a new addition. It had not been practiced until Constantine instituted it.
Fast forward another 400 years: The Church starts to require a tithe from their members. Before this only free will offerings were given.
Fast forward to our day and time: We're still paying our leaders and building temples to worship in.
I would submit that Jesus had a plan in mind for His Church. He communicated that plan eloquently. He modelled the leadership structure He expected. He knelt down and washed their feet. He told them to do the same to one another. He warned them not to "lord it over" their brothers or to call one another "Father" because they were all brothers and equals in the eyes of God.
The Family of God has one Father. His name is God. The Body of Christ has one head. His name is Jesus.
For over 700 years the church of Jesus took no tithes. All of the money freely given was collected and spent on the poor and the orphan and the widow.
That is New Testament Christianity. If you want to practice something else, something "new and improved" feel right at home. I do not condemn anyone for that.
But, as for me and my house, we will follow the New Testament and seek to "Be the Church" that Jesus commanded his disciples to plant, by the Grace of God.
If you want to study the subject you will quickly see that the New Testament knows nothing of hierarchy. Plenty of Biblical scholars from all backgrounds and denominations agree on this point...even Catholic scholars! The NT church was not a hierarchy, it was a family.
Blessings, Keith
The reason the New Testament church didn't have buildings? They WERE the building.
The reason the New Testament church didn't pay their elders, shepherds and overseers? Because you don't pay your family members to love you or care for you.
The reason the New Testament church didn't have any blood sacrifice (as every other religion around them did)? Because not only was Jesus the first and ultimate sacrifice, but this new temple, the new priesthood (that's us) also became the living sacrifices as well.
So, fast forward 300 years and a Roman Emperor establishes a new way of doing church. He gives them buildings. He pays their leaders. This was a new addition. It had not been practiced until Constantine instituted it.
Fast forward another 400 years: The Church starts to require a tithe from their members. Before this only free will offerings were given.
Fast forward to our day and time: We're still paying our leaders and building temples to worship in.
I would submit that Jesus had a plan in mind for His Church. He communicated that plan eloquently. He modelled the leadership structure He expected. He knelt down and washed their feet. He told them to do the same to one another. He warned them not to "lord it over" their brothers or to call one another "Father" because they were all brothers and equals in the eyes of God.
The Family of God has one Father. His name is God. The Body of Christ has one head. His name is Jesus.
For over 700 years the church of Jesus took no tithes. All of the money freely given was collected and spent on the poor and the orphan and the widow.
That is New Testament Christianity. If you want to practice something else, something "new and improved" feel right at home. I do not condemn anyone for that.
But, as for me and my house, we will follow the New Testament and seek to "Be the Church" that Jesus commanded his disciples to plant, by the Grace of God.
If you want to study the subject you will quickly see that the New Testament knows nothing of hierarchy. Plenty of Biblical scholars from all backgrounds and denominations agree on this point...even Catholic scholars! The NT church was not a hierarchy, it was a family.
Blessings, Keith
Courage
On Saturday evening our family attended the opening of an art show. Several friends of mine had pieces in the show and we were there to support them and enjoy the art together.
As part of the evening they had tables set up in the cafe area where children could create their own art and hang it up. The theme was "Courage".
My youngest son, David drew a great picture of a homeless man begging for food and someone placing money into his hands. It was a picture of courage because the poor man had to have courage to humble himself and beg, and the person giving the money needed courage to step out and do the right thing, and to trust God to provide even though he was giving away some of his money.
My oldest son, Dylan (who turns 13 on Friday) took a long time to finish his drawing. He wouldn't allow anyone to look until he was done so we gave him his space and allowed him to take his time and finish.
When he was done I watched him hand it to the woman behind the table who looked at it, asked him about the drawing and then gave him tape to hang it on the wall. When I walked over and looked at the drawing he had done it was a man with a beard and glasses wearing a red t-shirt and a green jacket. At first I wasn't sure how this exemplified "courage" but then I realized that this person in the drawing was me.
Dylan came over and explained that he drew me because of the times when our family was financially struggling because I was out of work and I did temporary jobs to support the family. That was what he thought of when they asked him to draw a picture of "courage".
I can't tell you how proud I am of my sons.
-kg
As part of the evening they had tables set up in the cafe area where children could create their own art and hang it up. The theme was "Courage".
My youngest son, David drew a great picture of a homeless man begging for food and someone placing money into his hands. It was a picture of courage because the poor man had to have courage to humble himself and beg, and the person giving the money needed courage to step out and do the right thing, and to trust God to provide even though he was giving away some of his money.
My oldest son, Dylan (who turns 13 on Friday) took a long time to finish his drawing. He wouldn't allow anyone to look until he was done so we gave him his space and allowed him to take his time and finish.
When he was done I watched him hand it to the woman behind the table who looked at it, asked him about the drawing and then gave him tape to hang it on the wall. When I walked over and looked at the drawing he had done it was a man with a beard and glasses wearing a red t-shirt and a green jacket. At first I wasn't sure how this exemplified "courage" but then I realized that this person in the drawing was me.
Dylan came over and explained that he drew me because of the times when our family was financially struggling because I was out of work and I did temporary jobs to support the family. That was what he thought of when they asked him to draw a picture of "courage".
I can't tell you how proud I am of my sons.
-kg
Wednesday, November 26, 2008
BEING THANKFUL
Here's list of things I'm thankful for:
* My amazing wife Wendy. She is everything I could have ever hoped for or dreamed of in a wife. I am constantly amazed by her and in awe of her daily.
* My sons Dylan (almost 13) and David (almost 11). They're both such great sources of joy for me. I'm honored and humbled to be their Dad.
* Our house church family at The Mission - These people are gold. I could go on and on about how each person and each family blesses me and inspires me and encourages me. When Wendy and I stepped out 3 years ago to do this crazy house church thing we had no idea who, if anyone, would join us. God has brought us some of the most amazing people and I am very thankful for each of them.
* Coffee - Two cups every morning before human interaction. Two scoops of vanilla ice cream per cup to sweeten, cool and add cream. Thank you God for coffee.
* Music - Where would we be without it? The power of music to heal, to inspire, and to communicate emotion is so amazing. Thank you God for music.
* Art - Sometimes I crave some time alone to just sit and soak in great art. I'll never be a visual artist of any merit, but even the attempt at creating art is cathartic for me. I wish I had more time to focus on it.
* Hulu.com - Without this website I couldn't watch The Daily Show with John Stewart, or those episodes of "Fringe" or "Heroes" I missed. Sweet, sweet Hulu.com, how I love thee.
* My job - Looking at the economy makes me very thankful that I even have a job at all these days. Of course, after being out of work for over a year before this job I am very grateful to work as a writer for a great company in a creative capacity. Thank you Jesus!
* Seeqpod.com - Thanks to this free music streaming site I can build my own playlists, discover new music and share it with my friends. Seeqpod helped me find great new artists like Ray LaMontagne, Anne Nalick, The Fray, Secret Machines, and Flight of the Condor. Plus I've built great playlists like "Gr80's", "Spy Film Music", "Rage Against the @#$% Machine", "Nirvana/Foo Fighters", and every song by David Gray and Snow Patrol. Man, I love me some Seeqpod.
*Movies - This year I've been impacted by "Into the Wild", "What Would Jesus Buy?", "Under The Same Moon", "The Dark Knight", "Wall-E", "Quantum of Solace", and "Taare Zameen Par (Every Child Is Special)". Love my Netflix and the local dollar theater. Can't wait to see "Synecdoche, New York", "The Soloist", and the new JJ Abrahms "Star Trek" re-launch next year.
*Asian Food - I could seriously eat chinese food every meal, every day for the rest of my life and be happy. Especially love Thai, Mongolian BBQ, and Chinese. Not Japanese (hate Sushi) and not Vietnamese (at least not yet). I have had some amazing authentic Korean food locally thanks to a friend who speaks the lingo and knows where to go. Love me some Asian food. Mmmm….maybe we could do Chow Mein and Orange Chicken for Thanksgiving this year?
*Facebook - Never liked MySpace but this new Facebook thing is awesome. My actual friends from my actual life are on there and we correspond in various ways every single day. I get to see when they upload new photos, I get to let them know what I'm doing and see what they're doing. It's a slice of online heaven. I've actually started to make a long list of "Keith is…" statements to make sure I always have a great one to write each day. My faves so far are: "Keith is pinching a loaf", "Keith always gives 110% because he's not very good at math", "Keith is projectile vomiting", "Keith made you look!", "Keith is a south pole elf", "Keith would like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony". I can't wait to unleash the rest of my list! Oh, please send me more flair.
*My Parents - They constantly amaze me, really. I can't put into words just how thankful I am for Godly parents and for their unending generosity and love for me. They're awesome people and I am very grateful for them both.
*In-N-Out Cheeseburgers - For those of you who don't live in Southern California, who will never know the exquisite joy of eating a Double-Double cheeseburger and extra-crispy fries, I weep for you…or maybe it's just the awesome taste of burger perfection? I don't want to know. Pass the ketchup, please.
*Philip K. Dick - One of the most consistently insane and brilliant writers who ever lived. You owe it to yourself to read "Ubik", "Flow My Tears the Policeman Said", "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" and "The Man Who Japed". His short story collections are awesome too. Our local library has actual signed copies of his hardcovers on the shelf. I confess I've wondered how much the fee would be if I checked them all out and "lost them". He's a genius.
*Charlie Kauffman - Can't say enough about "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" or "Adaptation" for sheer creative and emotional brilliance. Can't wait to watch "Synecdoche, NY" soon.
These are just some of the many things I'm thankful for. What are you thankful for?
-kg
* My amazing wife Wendy. She is everything I could have ever hoped for or dreamed of in a wife. I am constantly amazed by her and in awe of her daily.
* My sons Dylan (almost 13) and David (almost 11). They're both such great sources of joy for me. I'm honored and humbled to be their Dad.
* Our house church family at The Mission - These people are gold. I could go on and on about how each person and each family blesses me and inspires me and encourages me. When Wendy and I stepped out 3 years ago to do this crazy house church thing we had no idea who, if anyone, would join us. God has brought us some of the most amazing people and I am very thankful for each of them.
* Coffee - Two cups every morning before human interaction. Two scoops of vanilla ice cream per cup to sweeten, cool and add cream. Thank you God for coffee.
* Music - Where would we be without it? The power of music to heal, to inspire, and to communicate emotion is so amazing. Thank you God for music.
* Art - Sometimes I crave some time alone to just sit and soak in great art. I'll never be a visual artist of any merit, but even the attempt at creating art is cathartic for me. I wish I had more time to focus on it.
* Hulu.com - Without this website I couldn't watch The Daily Show with John Stewart, or those episodes of "Fringe" or "Heroes" I missed. Sweet, sweet Hulu.com, how I love thee.
* My job - Looking at the economy makes me very thankful that I even have a job at all these days. Of course, after being out of work for over a year before this job I am very grateful to work as a writer for a great company in a creative capacity. Thank you Jesus!
* Seeqpod.com - Thanks to this free music streaming site I can build my own playlists, discover new music and share it with my friends. Seeqpod helped me find great new artists like Ray LaMontagne, Anne Nalick, The Fray, Secret Machines, and Flight of the Condor. Plus I've built great playlists like "Gr80's", "Spy Film Music", "Rage Against the @#$% Machine", "Nirvana/Foo Fighters", and every song by David Gray and Snow Patrol. Man, I love me some Seeqpod.
*Movies - This year I've been impacted by "Into the Wild", "What Would Jesus Buy?", "Under The Same Moon", "The Dark Knight", "Wall-E", "Quantum of Solace", and "Taare Zameen Par (Every Child Is Special)". Love my Netflix and the local dollar theater. Can't wait to see "Synecdoche, New York", "The Soloist", and the new JJ Abrahms "Star Trek" re-launch next year.
*Asian Food - I could seriously eat chinese food every meal, every day for the rest of my life and be happy. Especially love Thai, Mongolian BBQ, and Chinese. Not Japanese (hate Sushi) and not Vietnamese (at least not yet). I have had some amazing authentic Korean food locally thanks to a friend who speaks the lingo and knows where to go. Love me some Asian food. Mmmm….maybe we could do Chow Mein and Orange Chicken for Thanksgiving this year?
*Facebook - Never liked MySpace but this new Facebook thing is awesome. My actual friends from my actual life are on there and we correspond in various ways every single day. I get to see when they upload new photos, I get to let them know what I'm doing and see what they're doing. It's a slice of online heaven. I've actually started to make a long list of "Keith is…" statements to make sure I always have a great one to write each day. My faves so far are: "Keith is pinching a loaf", "Keith always gives 110% because he's not very good at math", "Keith is projectile vomiting", "Keith made you look!", "Keith is a south pole elf", "Keith would like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony". I can't wait to unleash the rest of my list! Oh, please send me more flair.
*My Parents - They constantly amaze me, really. I can't put into words just how thankful I am for Godly parents and for their unending generosity and love for me. They're awesome people and I am very grateful for them both.
*In-N-Out Cheeseburgers - For those of you who don't live in Southern California, who will never know the exquisite joy of eating a Double-Double cheeseburger and extra-crispy fries, I weep for you…or maybe it's just the awesome taste of burger perfection? I don't want to know. Pass the ketchup, please.
*Philip K. Dick - One of the most consistently insane and brilliant writers who ever lived. You owe it to yourself to read "Ubik", "Flow My Tears the Policeman Said", "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" and "The Man Who Japed". His short story collections are awesome too. Our local library has actual signed copies of his hardcovers on the shelf. I confess I've wondered how much the fee would be if I checked them all out and "lost them". He's a genius.
*Charlie Kauffman - Can't say enough about "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" or "Adaptation" for sheer creative and emotional brilliance. Can't wait to watch "Synecdoche, NY" soon.
These are just some of the many things I'm thankful for. What are you thankful for?
-kg
Monday, November 24, 2008
What Do You Want From Me?
Yesterday at house church we did an art exercise led by our own Heather Wright.
After everyone had closed their eyes, Heather asked us to imagine being in the crowd as Jesus taught the Beatitudes on the hillside. She asked us to imagine the feel of the ground beneath our feet, the smell in the air, the warmth of the sun on our face.
As Jesus taught she asked us to think about how we felt as we listened to him speak, to imagine what his voice sounded like. To look at the faces of the others around us and to gauge their reactions. Then Jesus stopped teaching and turned and walked over the top of the hill with his disciples. Where was he going? Would you follow him?
Suddenly Jesus returns and walks straight towards you. He takes your face in his hands and looks directly into your eyes. Do you look into his eyes? Do you look down? Do you look away? He asks you, "What do you want for me to do for you?"
Everyone then took a scrap of paper and spent time writing or drawing what their response was to this question, or just what they felt or saw during this exercise.
As I sat there with the paper in my hand I could feel a burning deep in my chest. Earlier that morning a good friend had called me to ask if there was anything I was praying about. I told him about something that was on my heart for possible ministry opportunities at the motel where we serve. My friend corrected me, "No, I mean is there something personal that you're asking God for? Is there something for yourself that you want God to answer for you or to do for you?"
I couldn't come up with anything but I told my friend I would let him know if I thought of something.
Now, here I was, sitting on my sofa in house church and Heather was leading me to Jesus and he was looking directly into my eyes, and Jesus was asking me once again, "What do you want me to do for you?"
I was overwhelmed with emotion. Twice in the same day God had directly asked me to tell him what was on my heart. What was it I wanted from him? Why couldn't I answer this question?
After praying about this and searching my heart deeply, I knew in that moment, standing before Jesus with his hands on my face and the question in his eyes, I knew that there was only one answer I could give.
What would your answer be?
-kg
Friday, November 21, 2008
So far to go....
As I've been reading more about the Church that God prophesied about and that Jesus inspired and the Apostles promoted and planted and modelled I am realizing that there is still so much to unpack and understand. More than I ever imagined.
I'm currently reading a great book by G.K. Beale called "The Temple and the Church's Mission" which is so full of mind-blowing exegesis from the Old Testament and corrolation in the New Testament that I can hardly grasp all of it at once. My brain hurts a little each time I read it. But it's a good hurt. A very good hurt.
Hopefully I will be able to fully digest all of what this book unpacks for me about God's promise to pour out His Spirit on all flesh, about his promise to build a temple "not made by human hands" and about a Church which fulfills all of this and more from Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel through Matthew, Mark, Acts, the letters of Peter, the Revelation of John and the teaching of Paul.
I pray that I can understand it all well enough to communicate it back to others both here and in my book-in-progress. I really feel that God has been urging me to dig deeper and deeper into this subject, but the deeper I dig the more I uncover.
It's profound.
-kg
I'm currently reading a great book by G.K. Beale called "The Temple and the Church's Mission" which is so full of mind-blowing exegesis from the Old Testament and corrolation in the New Testament that I can hardly grasp all of it at once. My brain hurts a little each time I read it. But it's a good hurt. A very good hurt.
Hopefully I will be able to fully digest all of what this book unpacks for me about God's promise to pour out His Spirit on all flesh, about his promise to build a temple "not made by human hands" and about a Church which fulfills all of this and more from Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel through Matthew, Mark, Acts, the letters of Peter, the Revelation of John and the teaching of Paul.
I pray that I can understand it all well enough to communicate it back to others both here and in my book-in-progress. I really feel that God has been urging me to dig deeper and deeper into this subject, but the deeper I dig the more I uncover.
It's profound.
-kg
Wednesday, November 19, 2008
DOWNLOAD FREE PDF COPIES OF MY BOOKS
My book "The Gospel: For Here Or To Go?" has been downloaded 513 times to date.
"Nobody Follows Jesus (So Why Should You?)" has been downloaded 434 times to date.
If you haven't already, be sure to click the link below and download a FREE PDF copy of both today.
DOWNLOAD HERE
My third book (in progress now) should be available early next year. It's about God's specific plan for His New Testament Church according to Old Testament Prophecy, the words of Jesus and the practice of the early church as lead by the Apostles.
Working title: "Jesus Called. He Wants His Church Back"
-kg
"Nobody Follows Jesus (So Why Should You?)" has been downloaded 434 times to date.
If you haven't already, be sure to click the link below and download a FREE PDF copy of both today.
DOWNLOAD HERE
My third book (in progress now) should be available early next year. It's about God's specific plan for His New Testament Church according to Old Testament Prophecy, the words of Jesus and the practice of the early church as lead by the Apostles.
Working title: "Jesus Called. He Wants His Church Back"
-kg
Tuesday, November 11, 2008
More Love, Less Politics
American Christians will always be frustrated by a desire to see our laws correspond with the Bible. The truth is, it never will. Why? Because our laws are built around a document called the Constitution, not the scriptures.
So, for example, if our courts have to determine whether or not it is legal to enforce a law that gives one set of rights to some people and a different set of rights to others, they will look at the Constitution and see that everyone is considered equal under the law and rule against that law.
Under the law of our land people have the right to enter into marriage with one another. Any law that gives this right to some people and takes it away for others will be considered unconstitutional.
Christians will always want those laws to be interpreted primarily by the Bible and secondarily by the Constitution, but since these two documents have different authors, and different purposes, they will not agree on most issues, including homosexual marriage.
When our nation was founded and our Constitution was written, they did not feel any need to write down laws which reinforced the morality and the common practice of society around them. It was a given. Therefore they wrote laws which, in tandem with their existing morality and observable societal norms, combined to create a harmonious nation of free people.
What has changed? Our Constitution is fundamentally the same, but the morality and practice of our society has changed. The laws we write cannot hope to touch our inner person. Laws do not change hearts.
If you hope to write and create laws to govern society you look to politicians and lawyers and presidents. However, if you hope to influence behaviors and change the heart of a person you look to clerics, priests, teachers and parents.
Our society has failed to live up to the ideals of our past because our churches have failed to pass on the morality and the practice of hospitality and brotherly love. We have not loved our neighbor as ourselves. We have not been known for our love. Our laws have stayed the same, but our Churches have gotten off track and lost focus.
American Christians have become so disillusioned with the world around them, and yet they have no one to blame but themselves. For the last several decades the Church in America has been embracing a mentality of retreat. We have created a neat and comfortable little version of the world with a cross on top where our interaction with "those unbelievers out there" is minimized as much as possible.
Because we have refused to be salt and light as Jesus commanded us, the society around us has slowly become more and more "un-Christian" and really, what else should we expect it to become like? If we have reduced our interactions with others, focused all of our time and energy on ourselves, built larger and more expensive buildings to hide in, and invested millions of dollars building empires of entertainment, fashion and communication to occupy our time and tell us what we want to hear, how else should our world have developed in our absence?
In our frustration we have now turned to politics to create the change we have failed to create by avoiding contact with unbelievers. Now we hope to dominate these people politically and have our way, regardless of whether or not they agree.
In some ways, I wonder if it's too late for any of this. Too late for us to get back to our original calling to love and serve and live out the selfless beauty of the Gospel. Too late to attempt any sort of dialog with people we have avoided for so very long. Too late to be the Church that Jesus intended for us to be.
The solution to the problems facing American society is not found in changing our laws, and even if it were that would be a job for a lawyer or a politician, not a follower of Jesus.
Our only job is to love and to serve and to model a society where all people are equally important in the eyes of God.
Let's do our best to obey our Lord and Savior when he commands us to be known for our love.
If it's not too late....
-kg
So, for example, if our courts have to determine whether or not it is legal to enforce a law that gives one set of rights to some people and a different set of rights to others, they will look at the Constitution and see that everyone is considered equal under the law and rule against that law.
Under the law of our land people have the right to enter into marriage with one another. Any law that gives this right to some people and takes it away for others will be considered unconstitutional.
Christians will always want those laws to be interpreted primarily by the Bible and secondarily by the Constitution, but since these two documents have different authors, and different purposes, they will not agree on most issues, including homosexual marriage.
When our nation was founded and our Constitution was written, they did not feel any need to write down laws which reinforced the morality and the common practice of society around them. It was a given. Therefore they wrote laws which, in tandem with their existing morality and observable societal norms, combined to create a harmonious nation of free people.
What has changed? Our Constitution is fundamentally the same, but the morality and practice of our society has changed. The laws we write cannot hope to touch our inner person. Laws do not change hearts.
If you hope to write and create laws to govern society you look to politicians and lawyers and presidents. However, if you hope to influence behaviors and change the heart of a person you look to clerics, priests, teachers and parents.
Our society has failed to live up to the ideals of our past because our churches have failed to pass on the morality and the practice of hospitality and brotherly love. We have not loved our neighbor as ourselves. We have not been known for our love. Our laws have stayed the same, but our Churches have gotten off track and lost focus.
American Christians have become so disillusioned with the world around them, and yet they have no one to blame but themselves. For the last several decades the Church in America has been embracing a mentality of retreat. We have created a neat and comfortable little version of the world with a cross on top where our interaction with "those unbelievers out there" is minimized as much as possible.
Because we have refused to be salt and light as Jesus commanded us, the society around us has slowly become more and more "un-Christian" and really, what else should we expect it to become like? If we have reduced our interactions with others, focused all of our time and energy on ourselves, built larger and more expensive buildings to hide in, and invested millions of dollars building empires of entertainment, fashion and communication to occupy our time and tell us what we want to hear, how else should our world have developed in our absence?
In our frustration we have now turned to politics to create the change we have failed to create by avoiding contact with unbelievers. Now we hope to dominate these people politically and have our way, regardless of whether or not they agree.
In some ways, I wonder if it's too late for any of this. Too late for us to get back to our original calling to love and serve and live out the selfless beauty of the Gospel. Too late to attempt any sort of dialog with people we have avoided for so very long. Too late to be the Church that Jesus intended for us to be.
The solution to the problems facing American society is not found in changing our laws, and even if it were that would be a job for a lawyer or a politician, not a follower of Jesus.
Our only job is to love and to serve and to model a society where all people are equally important in the eyes of God.
Let's do our best to obey our Lord and Savior when he commands us to be known for our love.
If it's not too late....
-kg
Saturday, November 08, 2008
Happy Birthday (To Me) - November 9
HAPPY BIRTHDAY (to me)
Yes, forty two years ago the fabric of space and time pulled back to reveal this fragile and yet strangely troubled soul.
It was a day of wonder and tears. Cigarettes were burned. Laughter echoed down the hallway. A mother's heart slid into gear.
The angel's sighed, and one of them farted, but no one knew which one it was so they pretended not to hear.
It was a day of love so great it hurt to breathe.
Glad to be here, friends. Hope to be here a bit longer before I join the flatulent angels.
Wubba,
Keith
Yes, forty two years ago the fabric of space and time pulled back to reveal this fragile and yet strangely troubled soul.
It was a day of wonder and tears. Cigarettes were burned. Laughter echoed down the hallway. A mother's heart slid into gear.
The angel's sighed, and one of them farted, but no one knew which one it was so they pretended not to hear.
It was a day of love so great it hurt to breathe.
Glad to be here, friends. Hope to be here a bit longer before I join the flatulent angels.
Wubba,
Keith
Monday, November 03, 2008
Not My Church
Yesterday at house church God reminded me of something pretty important: This is not my church. It's His.
Seems like I would have figured this out already, and of course I "knew" this, but in practice I have been acting as if The Mission House Church were mine. It is not. It is God's Bride. I am blessed to host the weekly gatherings in my home, but it is not mine. I am only one member of this awesome family of God, and I am very grateful for each person who contributes their time, energy, talent, gifting and resources to this living organism.
Needless to say, yesterday was a significant day in the life of our house church and I was very blessed to sit at the back of the room and observe the Spirit of God as He lead us through the conversation and taught us from His Word.
More later...
kg
Seems like I would have figured this out already, and of course I "knew" this, but in practice I have been acting as if The Mission House Church were mine. It is not. It is God's Bride. I am blessed to host the weekly gatherings in my home, but it is not mine. I am only one member of this awesome family of God, and I am very grateful for each person who contributes their time, energy, talent, gifting and resources to this living organism.
Needless to say, yesterday was a significant day in the life of our house church and I was very blessed to sit at the back of the room and observe the Spirit of God as He lead us through the conversation and taught us from His Word.
More later...
kg
Monday, October 20, 2008
FIRST CENTURY PAGAN TALKS TO FIRST CENTURY CHRISTIAN
Imagine the conversation between an unbelieving Pagan in the first century and a follower of The Way:
Pagan: "I would like to know more about this Christ you speak of. Where is your temple?"
Christian: "We don't have one."
Pagan: "What? Then where does one go to meet with your God?"
Christian: "We are all the Temple of the Holy Spirit, so God meets with us wherever we are."
Pagan: "Hmm...then where do you conduct your sacrifices?"
Christian: "We have no animal sacrifice at all. Jesus became our sacrifice so that we could be free. Our only sacrifices are our own lives as we surrender to Him and His will every day."
Pagan: "Fascinating! I would love to meet your Priest to learn more about this."
Christian: "Well, I am a Priest."
Pagan: "You are?! But I thought you sold pottery in the marketplace? How can you be a Priest in this new religion?"
Christian: "You can be one also if you submit your life to Christ and place your trust in Him. We are all Priests of God."
Wasn't it a radically different system of faith that Jesus breathed into life 2000 years ago?
Isn't this a radically different system of faith than anything we have today?
Can someone explain to me why it should be different than what Jesus taught, inspired and promoted for His Church?
-kg
Pagan: "I would like to know more about this Christ you speak of. Where is your temple?"
Christian: "We don't have one."
Pagan: "What? Then where does one go to meet with your God?"
Christian: "We are all the Temple of the Holy Spirit, so God meets with us wherever we are."
Pagan: "Hmm...then where do you conduct your sacrifices?"
Christian: "We have no animal sacrifice at all. Jesus became our sacrifice so that we could be free. Our only sacrifices are our own lives as we surrender to Him and His will every day."
Pagan: "Fascinating! I would love to meet your Priest to learn more about this."
Christian: "Well, I am a Priest."
Pagan: "You are?! But I thought you sold pottery in the marketplace? How can you be a Priest in this new religion?"
Christian: "You can be one also if you submit your life to Christ and place your trust in Him. We are all Priests of God."
Wasn't it a radically different system of faith that Jesus breathed into life 2000 years ago?
Isn't this a radically different system of faith than anything we have today?
Can someone explain to me why it should be different than what Jesus taught, inspired and promoted for His Church?
-kg
Wednesday, October 15, 2008
Biblical Scholarship In Support of Non-Hierarchy in the Church
Perhaps you have been following the very lengthy debate and commentary going on here on this blog (under the article "Response to Exploitation or Empowerment?") and over at the [Subversive Underground] e-newsletter blog article "Out of Business"?
As part of this discussion, my good friend and brother in Christ, Paul Martin, has challenged my view of a non-hierarcichal Church in the New Testament, and therefore today's expression of Church.
One of the most troublesome statements by my friend in this ongoing dialog has been the idea that "Your model of church polity is rejected by virtually every--TRAINED--biblical scholar today and over the past 2,000 years."
Here are some quotes by renowned and respected Biblical Scholars to refute this erroneous statement and lend support to my argument that hierarchy developed over time:
"In the Catholic Church there are two classes, clergy and laity . . . . This structure does not correspond to what Jesus did and taught. Consequently it has not had a good effect in the history of the Church . . . . Among his disciples Jesus did not want any distinction of class or rank . . . . In contradiction to this instruction of Jesus, a “hierarchy,” a “sacred authority,” was nevertheless formed in the third century - Herbert Haag (a Roman Catholic), Upstairs, Downstairs: Did Jesus Want a Two-Class Church?, Crossroad, 1997, p.109.
"Our survey has shown us that no cultic priesthood is to be found in the New Testament. Yet we wound up importing Old Testament Levitical forms and imposing them on Christian ministry . . . . Nevertheless in practice there is no denying that there has historically been a gathering into one person and his office what were formerly the gifts of many . . . .[This practice] goes astray, of course, when it translates to mean that only ordination gives competence, authority, and the right of professional governance. It goes further astray when eventually all jurisdictional and administrative powers in the church come to be seen as an extension of the sacramental powers conferred at ordination. In short, there is a movement here away from the more pristine collaborative and mutual ministries of the New Testament." - William Bausch, (A Roman Catholic) in Traditions, Tensions, Transitions in Ministry, Twenty-Third Publications, 1982, pp. 54, 30.
"Increasing institutionalism is the clearest mark of early Catholicism - when church becomes increasingly identified with institution, when authority becomes increasingly coterminous with office, when a basic distinction between clergy and laity becomes increasingly self-evident, when grace becomes increasingly narrowed to well-defined ritual acts. We saw above that such features were absent from first generation Christianity, though in the second generation the picture was beginning to change." - D.G. Dunn, Unity & Diversity in the New Testament, Westminster Press, 1977, p.351.
"The clergy-laity dichotomy is a direct carry-over from pre-Reformation Roman Catholicism and a throwback to the Old Testament priesthood. It is one of the principal obstacles to the church effectively being God’s agent of the kingdom today because it creates a false idea that only ‘holy men,’ namely, ordained ministers, are really qualified and responsible for leadership and significant ministry. In the New Testament there are functional distinctions between various kinds of ministries but no hierarchical division between clergy and laity. The New Testament teaches us that the church is a community in which all are gifted and all have ministry." - Howard Snyder
"Prayer was offered, as in the Synagogue, but not in stated liturgical form. It was uttered freely, on the impulse of the Spirit, and was presented in the name of Christ, the Intercessor . . . The Christian faith gave rise to hymns of a new character, often produced in the heat of the moment and almost as soon forgotten; but sometimes short lyrics of real beauty were treasured and repeated . . . Chief of all these [elements] was the observance of the Supper . . . This, indeed, was not so much a part of the worship as the vessel which contained all the parts. The purpose of the Christian meeting was to hold the common meal, and to make it a memorial of Jesus’ Last Supper with the disciples . . . The exercise of the spiritual gifts was thus the characteristic element in primitive worship. Those gifts might vary in their nature and degree according to the capacity of each individual, but they were bestowed on all and room was allowed in the service for the participation of all who were present. “When you meet together,” says Paul, “each of you hath a psalm, a teaching, a tongue, an interpretation.” Every member was expected to contribute something of his own to the common worship . . . . Worship in those first days was independent of all forms." - Ernest F. Scott, from The Nature of the Early Church, Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1941, pp.75,77,79,87.
"There are few more reliable constants running through all human society than the special place every human community makes for the professional religionist . . . in every case he disposes a unique quality, which he usually possesses for life, which alone qualifies him for his function, and beside which the mass of men are identifiable negatively as “laymen,” i.e., non-bearers of this special quality . . . One person per place is enough to do what he needs to do . . . the clergyman mediates between the common life and the realm of the “invisible” or the “spiritual” . . . No one balks at what his services cost" - John H. Yoder, “The Fullness of Christ,” reprinted in Searching Together, 11:3, 1982, pp.4-7.
"Properly speaking, New Testament Christianity knows nothing of the word “sacrament,” which belongs essentially to the heathen world of the Graeco-Roman empire and which unfortunately some of the Reformers unthinkingly took over from ecclesiastical tradition. For this word, and still more the overtones which it conveys, is the starting point for those disastrous developments which began soon to transform the community of Jesus into the Church which is first and foremost a sacramental Church" - Emil Brunner, The Misunderstanding of the Church, Lutterworth, 1952, pp.72-73).
"1 Cor. 14:26 gives us one form of early Christian worship. There is no mention of worship leaders or of reading the Torah. Rather each brings a song (perhaps sung in the Spirit), a teaching, a revelation. The impression is of a real act of the body, not merely the performance of a noted few. - Ben Witherington, Conflict in Corinth, p.285.
Additionally, Bruce Winter in his book "Philo and Paul Among the Sophists" (Cambridge University Press, 1997) and Duane Litfin’s "St. Paul’s Theology of Proclamation" (Cambridge University Press, 1994) make the following points:
- Paul renounces Greek rhetorical techniques in preaching that are marked by exalting the art of eloquence. To Paul, these undermined the power of God and the centrality of the cross.
- Paul writes: “When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God …. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power….” 1 Cor. 2:1, 4-5. Winter believes that Paul had the sophists in view.
- Paul rejected the rhetorical methods of the sophists so that he would not be aligned with them in any way.
- Winter argues that 1 Cor. 1:17 focuses on the rhetorical skill of the speaker. Paul argues against rhetorical artistry because it obscures the proclamation of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
- The sophists charged for their services while Paul offered his gospel free of charge and worked manually lest he be a burden to the churches.
- Paul’s presence in public and his delivery style were deficient according to the standards of Greek rhetoric (2 Cor. 10:10).
- Paul and Apollos were not judged in terms of their rhetorical abilities. Paul renounces the employment of rhetoric in preaching in 1 Cor. 1-2 because it conflicts with the message of the cross. Preaching based on Greco-Roman rhetoric displays the artistry and personality of the speaker and puts the focus on the speaker rather on Christ. This is why Paul denounces such preaching. God saves through the weakness of the cross and the brokenness of the vessel used, therefore, the gospel should not advertise the strength of the speaker by “wowing” his hearers with his rhetorical artistry. This, according to Winter, compromises the gospel.
ALSO:
When one says that the notion that anyone can teach, preach, or prophesy on a regular basis is unbiblical, they are dead wrong. While the NT teaches (and the authors agree) that not all Christians are specifically gifted as teachers, prophets, or apostles, it also teaches that every Christian is a minister, a functioning priest, and is capable of instructing, prophesying, and exhorting in the church.
Here are just a few examples from the NT literature itself:
**1 Cor. 14:31 - For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. [This is not relegated to prophets only. See R. Banks, H. Snyder, G. Fee, F.F. Bruce, and many of other scholars on this point.]
**Rom. 15:14 - I myself am convinced, my brethren, that you yourselves are full of goodness, complete in knowledge and competent to instruct one another. [These words were written to the church in Rome and included all believers].
**Heb. 10:25 - Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another … [Note that this has reference to the normative meeting of the church. This clearly shows us then that the congregation is active during the meeting and is engaged in exhorting “one another” and “provoking “one another” to love and to good works (v.24). There’s nothing here about passively listening to one man. The same point is made in 1 Cor. 14:26.
These and other scholarly references and sources can be found
HERE
This link (above), where I took each of these quotes, involves another online debate betweeen Biblical Scholars and Historians Jon Zens and Ben Witherington concerning the evidence for a relational, Christ-centric house church in the First and Second Century and the arguments laid out in Frank Viola's book, "Pagan Christianity".
I hope this is helpful to, if nothing else, clarify the misconception that "virtually no TRAINED Biblical scholars agree" with my view of Church polity.
Blessings,
Keith
As part of this discussion, my good friend and brother in Christ, Paul Martin, has challenged my view of a non-hierarcichal Church in the New Testament, and therefore today's expression of Church.
One of the most troublesome statements by my friend in this ongoing dialog has been the idea that "Your model of church polity is rejected by virtually every--TRAINED--biblical scholar today and over the past 2,000 years."
Here are some quotes by renowned and respected Biblical Scholars to refute this erroneous statement and lend support to my argument that hierarchy developed over time:
"In the Catholic Church there are two classes, clergy and laity . . . . This structure does not correspond to what Jesus did and taught. Consequently it has not had a good effect in the history of the Church . . . . Among his disciples Jesus did not want any distinction of class or rank . . . . In contradiction to this instruction of Jesus, a “hierarchy,” a “sacred authority,” was nevertheless formed in the third century - Herbert Haag (a Roman Catholic), Upstairs, Downstairs: Did Jesus Want a Two-Class Church?, Crossroad, 1997, p.109.
"Our survey has shown us that no cultic priesthood is to be found in the New Testament. Yet we wound up importing Old Testament Levitical forms and imposing them on Christian ministry . . . . Nevertheless in practice there is no denying that there has historically been a gathering into one person and his office what were formerly the gifts of many . . . .[This practice] goes astray, of course, when it translates to mean that only ordination gives competence, authority, and the right of professional governance. It goes further astray when eventually all jurisdictional and administrative powers in the church come to be seen as an extension of the sacramental powers conferred at ordination. In short, there is a movement here away from the more pristine collaborative and mutual ministries of the New Testament." - William Bausch, (A Roman Catholic) in Traditions, Tensions, Transitions in Ministry, Twenty-Third Publications, 1982, pp. 54, 30.
"Increasing institutionalism is the clearest mark of early Catholicism - when church becomes increasingly identified with institution, when authority becomes increasingly coterminous with office, when a basic distinction between clergy and laity becomes increasingly self-evident, when grace becomes increasingly narrowed to well-defined ritual acts. We saw above that such features were absent from first generation Christianity, though in the second generation the picture was beginning to change." - D.G. Dunn, Unity & Diversity in the New Testament, Westminster Press, 1977, p.351.
"The clergy-laity dichotomy is a direct carry-over from pre-Reformation Roman Catholicism and a throwback to the Old Testament priesthood. It is one of the principal obstacles to the church effectively being God’s agent of the kingdom today because it creates a false idea that only ‘holy men,’ namely, ordained ministers, are really qualified and responsible for leadership and significant ministry. In the New Testament there are functional distinctions between various kinds of ministries but no hierarchical division between clergy and laity. The New Testament teaches us that the church is a community in which all are gifted and all have ministry." - Howard Snyder
"Prayer was offered, as in the Synagogue, but not in stated liturgical form. It was uttered freely, on the impulse of the Spirit, and was presented in the name of Christ, the Intercessor . . . The Christian faith gave rise to hymns of a new character, often produced in the heat of the moment and almost as soon forgotten; but sometimes short lyrics of real beauty were treasured and repeated . . . Chief of all these [elements] was the observance of the Supper . . . This, indeed, was not so much a part of the worship as the vessel which contained all the parts. The purpose of the Christian meeting was to hold the common meal, and to make it a memorial of Jesus’ Last Supper with the disciples . . . The exercise of the spiritual gifts was thus the characteristic element in primitive worship. Those gifts might vary in their nature and degree according to the capacity of each individual, but they were bestowed on all and room was allowed in the service for the participation of all who were present. “When you meet together,” says Paul, “each of you hath a psalm, a teaching, a tongue, an interpretation.” Every member was expected to contribute something of his own to the common worship . . . . Worship in those first days was independent of all forms." - Ernest F. Scott, from The Nature of the Early Church, Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1941, pp.75,77,79,87.
"There are few more reliable constants running through all human society than the special place every human community makes for the professional religionist . . . in every case he disposes a unique quality, which he usually possesses for life, which alone qualifies him for his function, and beside which the mass of men are identifiable negatively as “laymen,” i.e., non-bearers of this special quality . . . One person per place is enough to do what he needs to do . . . the clergyman mediates between the common life and the realm of the “invisible” or the “spiritual” . . . No one balks at what his services cost" - John H. Yoder, “The Fullness of Christ,” reprinted in Searching Together, 11:3, 1982, pp.4-7.
"Properly speaking, New Testament Christianity knows nothing of the word “sacrament,” which belongs essentially to the heathen world of the Graeco-Roman empire and which unfortunately some of the Reformers unthinkingly took over from ecclesiastical tradition. For this word, and still more the overtones which it conveys, is the starting point for those disastrous developments which began soon to transform the community of Jesus into the Church which is first and foremost a sacramental Church" - Emil Brunner, The Misunderstanding of the Church, Lutterworth, 1952, pp.72-73).
"1 Cor. 14:26 gives us one form of early Christian worship. There is no mention of worship leaders or of reading the Torah. Rather each brings a song (perhaps sung in the Spirit), a teaching, a revelation. The impression is of a real act of the body, not merely the performance of a noted few. - Ben Witherington, Conflict in Corinth, p.285.
Additionally, Bruce Winter in his book "Philo and Paul Among the Sophists" (Cambridge University Press, 1997) and Duane Litfin’s "St. Paul’s Theology of Proclamation" (Cambridge University Press, 1994) make the following points:
- Paul renounces Greek rhetorical techniques in preaching that are marked by exalting the art of eloquence. To Paul, these undermined the power of God and the centrality of the cross.
- Paul writes: “When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God …. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power….” 1 Cor. 2:1, 4-5. Winter believes that Paul had the sophists in view.
- Paul rejected the rhetorical methods of the sophists so that he would not be aligned with them in any way.
- Winter argues that 1 Cor. 1:17 focuses on the rhetorical skill of the speaker. Paul argues against rhetorical artistry because it obscures the proclamation of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
- The sophists charged for their services while Paul offered his gospel free of charge and worked manually lest he be a burden to the churches.
- Paul’s presence in public and his delivery style were deficient according to the standards of Greek rhetoric (2 Cor. 10:10).
- Paul and Apollos were not judged in terms of their rhetorical abilities. Paul renounces the employment of rhetoric in preaching in 1 Cor. 1-2 because it conflicts with the message of the cross. Preaching based on Greco-Roman rhetoric displays the artistry and personality of the speaker and puts the focus on the speaker rather on Christ. This is why Paul denounces such preaching. God saves through the weakness of the cross and the brokenness of the vessel used, therefore, the gospel should not advertise the strength of the speaker by “wowing” his hearers with his rhetorical artistry. This, according to Winter, compromises the gospel.
ALSO:
When one says that the notion that anyone can teach, preach, or prophesy on a regular basis is unbiblical, they are dead wrong. While the NT teaches (and the authors agree) that not all Christians are specifically gifted as teachers, prophets, or apostles, it also teaches that every Christian is a minister, a functioning priest, and is capable of instructing, prophesying, and exhorting in the church.
Here are just a few examples from the NT literature itself:
**1 Cor. 14:31 - For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. [This is not relegated to prophets only. See R. Banks, H. Snyder, G. Fee, F.F. Bruce, and many of other scholars on this point.]
**Rom. 15:14 - I myself am convinced, my brethren, that you yourselves are full of goodness, complete in knowledge and competent to instruct one another. [These words were written to the church in Rome and included all believers].
**Heb. 10:25 - Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another … [Note that this has reference to the normative meeting of the church. This clearly shows us then that the congregation is active during the meeting and is engaged in exhorting “one another” and “provoking “one another” to love and to good works (v.24). There’s nothing here about passively listening to one man. The same point is made in 1 Cor. 14:26.
These and other scholarly references and sources can be found
HERE
This link (above), where I took each of these quotes, involves another online debate betweeen Biblical Scholars and Historians Jon Zens and Ben Witherington concerning the evidence for a relational, Christ-centric house church in the First and Second Century and the arguments laid out in Frank Viola's book, "Pagan Christianity".
I hope this is helpful to, if nothing else, clarify the misconception that "virtually no TRAINED Biblical scholars agree" with my view of Church polity.
Blessings,
Keith
Friday, October 10, 2008
FAMILY (A Poem)
Family
Toothy baby smiles
refrigerator messages
convey magnetic declarations
of devotion
Stick figures dance
together on the crayon sky
and this will be the rest of your life
remembering the sound of laughter
closing your eyes against the pillow
playing these scenes over again
and again, slowing down the film
to get a closer look at the sunlight
on the smiling face
the big blue eyes
Soft, tiny fingers on your skin
slobbery kisses against your morning cheek
dream reports at the edge of dawn
warm hugs beneath the covers
cuddling arms that barely reach
and this will be the rest of our life
together, remembering
the sound of all this laughter
the off-key songs from the backseat
the words all wrong
and stories that always end the same
Hand in hand
we are a family
forever, together
and this is what it means
to be loved
and to love
with every breath
This is what it means
By Keith Giles
2/12/03
Toothy baby smiles
refrigerator messages
convey magnetic declarations
of devotion
Stick figures dance
together on the crayon sky
and this will be the rest of your life
remembering the sound of laughter
closing your eyes against the pillow
playing these scenes over again
and again, slowing down the film
to get a closer look at the sunlight
on the smiling face
the big blue eyes
Soft, tiny fingers on your skin
slobbery kisses against your morning cheek
dream reports at the edge of dawn
warm hugs beneath the covers
cuddling arms that barely reach
and this will be the rest of our life
together, remembering
the sound of all this laughter
the off-key songs from the backseat
the words all wrong
and stories that always end the same
Hand in hand
we are a family
forever, together
and this is what it means
to be loved
and to love
with every breath
This is what it means
By Keith Giles
2/12/03
Thursday, October 09, 2008
ON A MORE PERSONAL NOTE
Heather Cosby tagged me to share this with all of you so, here goes...
4 things I was doing 10 years ago:
1- Working at Vineyard Music Group - Yes, I was hired on as their Wholesale Music Sales Director. It was one of the best jobs I've ever had and that entire experience was still one of the best seaons of my life. I loved VMG, I loved working with a "dream team" that included Dave Hackbarth, Jeff Searles, Brock Shinen, Lee Swope, Paul Martin, Brian Eichler and Chris Wimber. Chris was one of the best bosses I've ever worked for and I know there are those who would laugh if they read this because he wasn't really a great manager per se, but for me Chris excelled at envisioning his executive staff and empowering them to succeed. His funeral was one of the most amazing and signifcant events in my life.
2- Recording the Elysian Skies Cd, "Exquisite Whisper" - It was one of my lifelong dreams to record at the amazing Green Room in Huntington Beach. My friend and guitarist John Wahrmund and I wrote songs through the mail and my friend J.J. Plasencio (the bassist for "Sixpence None The Richer" at the time, and later "Plumb") agreed to produce our Cd. My friends Bill Scmidt and John Feiery joined us and the amazing Andy Prickett ("The Prayer Chain") engineered our recording and even played a guitar solo on our first track. My wife Wendy even sang background vocals on a couple of tracks too, which was very, very special to me. It took us almost two years to record, mix, master and manufacture the Cd, but it got great reviews over at the Phantom Tollbooth and True Tunes and our track "Digg" even ended up on a sampler called "Sparkler" which was distributed via Metro One Records. I think a few radio stations played "Digg" here and there, and a few of our songs ended up on the soundtrack for an indie film "When Love Walks In" too. Anyway, I am pretty proud of that Cd and once in a while I still listen to it and say, "Dang…we put out a really awesome Cd, didn’t we?" Yes, we did.
One of the biggest highlights for me was mixing the CD with the amazing Gene Eugene. He died soon after this and I will forever be grateful for those days I spent next to Gene. He blessed me and I was blessed to know him.
*Read the PT review
3- My son David was born. He's such a blessing to us. David is one of the only people I know who actually has all five of the "Love Languages" --Physical touch, Words of Affirmation, Acts of Service, Gifts and Quality Time are all important to David. He's the most loving person I know, other than my wife, and I am so very blessed to be his Dad.
4- Trying to publish my poetry. My senior year in college I wrote a series of poems on grief and loss called "Wintermoon and Coffeestain". I had attempted to submit my poetry to various magazines and come up empty. For a while there I had a British publishing house interested in the collection but then it fell apart. Oh well. Maybe I'll self-publish my poems through Lulu.com someday? Hmm….
4 things on my to-do list for today:
My HOME To-Do List:
1- Make plans to celebrate my 19th Wedding Anniversary with Wendy this weekend.
2- Re-install the OS on my laptop in hopes of eradicating a nasty virus which will not die and has now caused my computer to slow to a crawl.
3- Help my sons clean up their book-case in their room and separate out all the Baby Books which need to go into storage or get donated to charity.
4- Take a shower.
My WORK To-Do List:
1- Finish the Services E-Newsletter for October
2- Finish the Prevalent E-vite copy with new input
3- Finish the Marketing Services website copy
4- Finish the Hosted DRM End-User flyer copy
4 random things I love about my wife:
1- She's the most loving person I know. When we were dating in college she and I visited a local Nursing Home and I was in awe at the way she stopped to look each person in the eye, spend time with them and give them a real hug. I was instantly in love with her and I still am today.
2- She has the ability to speak words of wisdom to me when I need to hear them most.
3- She talks me out of stupid ideas and helps keep me from becoming a raging radical out in left field.
4- She still loves me after spending 19 years with me and seeing how shallow and selfish and petty I am.
4 jobs that I have had
1- Domino Pizza Delivery Driver- Lasted one week, I think. I couldn't get the pizzas there in 30 minutes so I ended up paying for them out of my meager paycheck. Plus my car, an awesome '67 Camaro, sucked gasoline mucho fierce so all my money went to buy gas.
2- Door-to-door "Rainbow" Salesman- It was a water-based vacuum-cleaner (my Mom still uses hers and loves it) and the sales exeprience helped me later in my career, but it was basically a scam. The only other good thing out of this job was meeting Lee (Hammar) Davis, one of my oldest and dearest friends who ended up being one of my groomsmen when I married Wendy.
3- UPS - First I was unloading the trailer trucks into the distribution center and onto the belts. I remember sweating like a pig and begging God to help me live long enough to finish the first truck. When I saw the back of the trailer I was so relieved. At least until my manager came into the truck, lifted up the floorboards and showed me the 900 boxes hidden in the lower compartment. I wanted to die after that. Soon I was moved to the belts, loading up the brown trucks for delivery. Hated that job.
4- Youth Pastor - I remember telling God that it was like using a hammer to drive nails. I was the wrong tool for that specific job, but God blessed those kids (and me) anyway. Good experience for me. Never want to do that again though.
4 movies I have watched more than once:
1- Blade Runner- I think I have probably seen this movie close to 200 times. I own all 3 versions of the film, including the recent boxed set which included the workprint edition and the deleted scenes and the 8 hours of extras and documentaries. I have read the book it's based on "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" by Philip K. Dick (one of my fave authors) three times. I have read the book on the making of the film "Future Noir" by Paul M. Sammon twice and I own the soundtrack. Yes, I am obsessed with this film.
2- Fight Club - Can't help how much I love this film. Read the book too. I might watch it again before the end of this year.
3- It's A Wonderful Life - I cry everytime I watch this .Everytime. Never fails to bless me.
4- Elf - I keep showing it to my friends to share it with them. "Did you hear THAT?!" Oh yeah.
**Bonus:
5- Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - Such an amazing film. It makes me thankful for my life and my friends and especially my wife. A true work of inspired genius.
6- Monty Python and the Holy Grail - Say no more.
7- Brazil - Another work of prophetic and creative genuis. Watch this film and marvel at how our modern media and culture mirror the one in this film. Amazing stuff.
8- Children of Men - Powerful stuff. The "one scene" where the baby literally brings peace is poignant in the extreme. Wow.
9- Hotel Rwanda
10- Gattaca
11- The Incredibles.
4 places I have lived:
1- Eagle Pass, Tx.
2- Bloomington, Indiana
3- El Paso, Tx
4- Huntington Beach, Ca
4 places I have been: (most memorable places I’ve been)
I am not a traveller by any means so this is not such an impressive list:
1- Grand Canyon- Took a helicopter trip into the canyon itself and split the "tuning fork" formation. Awesome.
2- Juarez and Tijuana, Mexico - Go once. Never forget it.
3- Brownsville, Fl - The big revival back in the 90's. I got to hang with Lindell Cooley and his wife and team for two days. Great experience.
4- Homeless- My family has spent the night sleeping on the floor several times over the last 10 years, thanks to the charity of our friends. Thankfully it never lasted longer than a week each time, but it really puts your life into perspective when your family literally has no place to call "Home".
4 places I want to visit:
1- Israel
2- England
3- Hawaii
4- Africa
4 TV shows I watch:
1- Joan of Arcadia - Never had any desire to watch this when it was on the air but thanks to the magic of DVD (and the charity of my friend Liz) my family is falling in love with this awesome show. God is allowed to say things on this show that blow my mind- and it's the heart of God for His people. Amazing.
2- Battlestar Galactica - Again, you'd probably never guess it, but this show has shown things about the heart of God and the nature of religion versus genuine spirituality that blow me away. It's not kid-friendly by any means, but the power of showing a flawed character asking for forgiveness, or laying hands on a dying child and asking God to heal him (and God does), etc. is very, very awesome.
3- Lost- I know, you either love it or hate it but I so, so, LOVE it! When it finally ends I hope they leave us with more questions than answers. I really do not want them to wrap it all up into a neat bow.
4- House- The best character on TV now is the guy you love to hate. They've had some very powerful shows about God as well.
**Bonus
5- The Fringe - I love sci-fi and this show has some promise.
4 things you may not know about me:
1- I've seen Elvis in concert. At the age of 9 I saw him with my parents in San Antonio, Tx. He died less than a year later. I still have the ticket stub.
2- I've been shot at.
3- I was nearly shot dead at a minimum security prison (different occasion).
4- Some of my favorite bands are "Rage Against the Machine", "Duran, Duran" and "Johnny Cash". Shoot me.
TAG 4 PEOPLE
*Lionel
*Heather Wright
*Keith Seckel
*Crissy Brooks
-kg
4 things I was doing 10 years ago:
1- Working at Vineyard Music Group - Yes, I was hired on as their Wholesale Music Sales Director. It was one of the best jobs I've ever had and that entire experience was still one of the best seaons of my life. I loved VMG, I loved working with a "dream team" that included Dave Hackbarth, Jeff Searles, Brock Shinen, Lee Swope, Paul Martin, Brian Eichler and Chris Wimber. Chris was one of the best bosses I've ever worked for and I know there are those who would laugh if they read this because he wasn't really a great manager per se, but for me Chris excelled at envisioning his executive staff and empowering them to succeed. His funeral was one of the most amazing and signifcant events in my life.
2- Recording the Elysian Skies Cd, "Exquisite Whisper" - It was one of my lifelong dreams to record at the amazing Green Room in Huntington Beach. My friend and guitarist John Wahrmund and I wrote songs through the mail and my friend J.J. Plasencio (the bassist for "Sixpence None The Richer" at the time, and later "Plumb") agreed to produce our Cd. My friends Bill Scmidt and John Feiery joined us and the amazing Andy Prickett ("The Prayer Chain") engineered our recording and even played a guitar solo on our first track. My wife Wendy even sang background vocals on a couple of tracks too, which was very, very special to me. It took us almost two years to record, mix, master and manufacture the Cd, but it got great reviews over at the Phantom Tollbooth and True Tunes and our track "Digg" even ended up on a sampler called "Sparkler" which was distributed via Metro One Records. I think a few radio stations played "Digg" here and there, and a few of our songs ended up on the soundtrack for an indie film "When Love Walks In" too. Anyway, I am pretty proud of that Cd and once in a while I still listen to it and say, "Dang…we put out a really awesome Cd, didn’t we?" Yes, we did.
One of the biggest highlights for me was mixing the CD with the amazing Gene Eugene. He died soon after this and I will forever be grateful for those days I spent next to Gene. He blessed me and I was blessed to know him.
*Read the PT review
3- My son David was born. He's such a blessing to us. David is one of the only people I know who actually has all five of the "Love Languages" --Physical touch, Words of Affirmation, Acts of Service, Gifts and Quality Time are all important to David. He's the most loving person I know, other than my wife, and I am so very blessed to be his Dad.
4- Trying to publish my poetry. My senior year in college I wrote a series of poems on grief and loss called "Wintermoon and Coffeestain". I had attempted to submit my poetry to various magazines and come up empty. For a while there I had a British publishing house interested in the collection but then it fell apart. Oh well. Maybe I'll self-publish my poems through Lulu.com someday? Hmm….
4 things on my to-do list for today:
My HOME To-Do List:
1- Make plans to celebrate my 19th Wedding Anniversary with Wendy this weekend.
2- Re-install the OS on my laptop in hopes of eradicating a nasty virus which will not die and has now caused my computer to slow to a crawl.
3- Help my sons clean up their book-case in their room and separate out all the Baby Books which need to go into storage or get donated to charity.
4- Take a shower.
My WORK To-Do List:
1- Finish the Services E-Newsletter for October
2- Finish the Prevalent E-vite copy with new input
3- Finish the Marketing Services website copy
4- Finish the Hosted DRM End-User flyer copy
4 random things I love about my wife:
1- She's the most loving person I know. When we were dating in college she and I visited a local Nursing Home and I was in awe at the way she stopped to look each person in the eye, spend time with them and give them a real hug. I was instantly in love with her and I still am today.
2- She has the ability to speak words of wisdom to me when I need to hear them most.
3- She talks me out of stupid ideas and helps keep me from becoming a raging radical out in left field.
4- She still loves me after spending 19 years with me and seeing how shallow and selfish and petty I am.
4 jobs that I have had
1- Domino Pizza Delivery Driver- Lasted one week, I think. I couldn't get the pizzas there in 30 minutes so I ended up paying for them out of my meager paycheck. Plus my car, an awesome '67 Camaro, sucked gasoline mucho fierce so all my money went to buy gas.
2- Door-to-door "Rainbow" Salesman- It was a water-based vacuum-cleaner (my Mom still uses hers and loves it) and the sales exeprience helped me later in my career, but it was basically a scam. The only other good thing out of this job was meeting Lee (Hammar) Davis, one of my oldest and dearest friends who ended up being one of my groomsmen when I married Wendy.
3- UPS - First I was unloading the trailer trucks into the distribution center and onto the belts. I remember sweating like a pig and begging God to help me live long enough to finish the first truck. When I saw the back of the trailer I was so relieved. At least until my manager came into the truck, lifted up the floorboards and showed me the 900 boxes hidden in the lower compartment. I wanted to die after that. Soon I was moved to the belts, loading up the brown trucks for delivery. Hated that job.
4- Youth Pastor - I remember telling God that it was like using a hammer to drive nails. I was the wrong tool for that specific job, but God blessed those kids (and me) anyway. Good experience for me. Never want to do that again though.
4 movies I have watched more than once:
1- Blade Runner- I think I have probably seen this movie close to 200 times. I own all 3 versions of the film, including the recent boxed set which included the workprint edition and the deleted scenes and the 8 hours of extras and documentaries. I have read the book it's based on "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" by Philip K. Dick (one of my fave authors) three times. I have read the book on the making of the film "Future Noir" by Paul M. Sammon twice and I own the soundtrack. Yes, I am obsessed with this film.
2- Fight Club - Can't help how much I love this film. Read the book too. I might watch it again before the end of this year.
3- It's A Wonderful Life - I cry everytime I watch this .Everytime. Never fails to bless me.
4- Elf - I keep showing it to my friends to share it with them. "Did you hear THAT?!" Oh yeah.
**Bonus:
5- Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - Such an amazing film. It makes me thankful for my life and my friends and especially my wife. A true work of inspired genius.
6- Monty Python and the Holy Grail - Say no more.
7- Brazil - Another work of prophetic and creative genuis. Watch this film and marvel at how our modern media and culture mirror the one in this film. Amazing stuff.
8- Children of Men - Powerful stuff. The "one scene" where the baby literally brings peace is poignant in the extreme. Wow.
9- Hotel Rwanda
10- Gattaca
11- The Incredibles.
4 places I have lived:
1- Eagle Pass, Tx.
2- Bloomington, Indiana
3- El Paso, Tx
4- Huntington Beach, Ca
4 places I have been: (most memorable places I’ve been)
I am not a traveller by any means so this is not such an impressive list:
1- Grand Canyon- Took a helicopter trip into the canyon itself and split the "tuning fork" formation. Awesome.
2- Juarez and Tijuana, Mexico - Go once. Never forget it.
3- Brownsville, Fl - The big revival back in the 90's. I got to hang with Lindell Cooley and his wife and team for two days. Great experience.
4- Homeless- My family has spent the night sleeping on the floor several times over the last 10 years, thanks to the charity of our friends. Thankfully it never lasted longer than a week each time, but it really puts your life into perspective when your family literally has no place to call "Home".
4 places I want to visit:
1- Israel
2- England
3- Hawaii
4- Africa
4 TV shows I watch:
1- Joan of Arcadia - Never had any desire to watch this when it was on the air but thanks to the magic of DVD (and the charity of my friend Liz) my family is falling in love with this awesome show. God is allowed to say things on this show that blow my mind- and it's the heart of God for His people. Amazing.
2- Battlestar Galactica - Again, you'd probably never guess it, but this show has shown things about the heart of God and the nature of religion versus genuine spirituality that blow me away. It's not kid-friendly by any means, but the power of showing a flawed character asking for forgiveness, or laying hands on a dying child and asking God to heal him (and God does), etc. is very, very awesome.
3- Lost- I know, you either love it or hate it but I so, so, LOVE it! When it finally ends I hope they leave us with more questions than answers. I really do not want them to wrap it all up into a neat bow.
4- House- The best character on TV now is the guy you love to hate. They've had some very powerful shows about God as well.
**Bonus
5- The Fringe - I love sci-fi and this show has some promise.
4 things you may not know about me:
1- I've seen Elvis in concert. At the age of 9 I saw him with my parents in San Antonio, Tx. He died less than a year later. I still have the ticket stub.
2- I've been shot at.
3- I was nearly shot dead at a minimum security prison (different occasion).
4- Some of my favorite bands are "Rage Against the Machine", "Duran, Duran" and "Johnny Cash". Shoot me.
TAG 4 PEOPLE
*Lionel
*Heather Wright
*Keith Seckel
*Crissy Brooks
-kg
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